First thoughts to Update #1 (White Paper) / Erste Gedanken zu Update #1 (White Paper)
Deutsch im Anschluß...
Hi Pedro, professional and structured, as I had already attested to you earlier ;-))
My planned comment got out of hand, so it may be taken up again in this form:
A few things I noticed - even in the first discussion it was apparent that there was criticism based on misunderstandings. At least in part.
I didn't get the impression that you were on an ego trip. Others did. Like you, they quickly take it personally. Kitty, for example, is very direct (I like that) and openly expresses unpopular opinions (I like that), which often causes offence. I know that; it doesn't matter as long as it leads to a goal, makes a difference. You're the same. That's a good thing. But you both feel very easily attacked, underestimated, disregarded or ignored. This tempts you to give detailed explanations which, in my opinion, are not necessary.
My request and recommendation would be: leave (both of you ;-)) these personal sensitivities out of it; they interfere with a creative and ambitious process.
As far as content is concerned, it's no different on the Steem than in real life. Not every artist is good at marketing themselves. For this reason, there are agents who take care of this side of art. I don't believe that a Community, like here on the platform, can fully take on this role: living community demands a sense of collectivity and lively interaction - the artists, who have no problem promoting their works anyway, can do that! The others are not open to this kind of marketing. And when I say that good art catches on, I don't mean as a self-runner, as an automatism. It has to be communicated.
Can you imagine a kind of broker role? I don't have the time to offer something like that (and I don't have the idea of how to divide it up among several people...) That would be a step in the right direction. Not voting on artists' posts. Steem is miles away from being the basis of a living wage. Not delegations - which only make sense if an artist is willing and able to engage with other bloggers, to get involved. Also - even less direct effect.
It shouldn't be the point of the thing to re-educate talented people to behave in such and such a way (that also goes a bit in your direction, dear Kitty ;-))
This also includes the selection criteria. Please, don't turn it into a call for tenders, application procedures or jury decisions! I find that extremely unfair and selective offline. Actively search for art that appeals to you. For artists in whom you see potential. And promote them, however it turns out in the end. Respond to recommendations, to tips from the community - everyone has a reader or follower somewhere who likes a certain style.
So: make the Steemians generally aware that they can act as art scouts - recommendation to you, small bonus as a thank you. Observe the recommended person, make contact if the evaluation is positive and then discuss the situation and needs.
To encourage a few more generous donors of good thoughts: perhaps @ronthroop, @stef1 or @udabeu would like to have their say?
Regards - Heike
Deutsche Version:
Hi Pedro, professionell und strukturiert, das hatte ich Dir ja schon früher bescheinigt ;-))
Mein geplanter Kommentar uferte aus; es darf also wieder in dieser Form aufgenommen werden:
Ein paar Dinge, die mir aufgefallen sind - schon in der ersten Diskussion war sichtbar, daß es Kritik gab, die auf Mißverständnissen beruht. Jedenfalls zum Teil.
Ich hatte nicht den Eindruck, daß Du auf einem Egotrip wärst. Andere schon. Wie Du selbst auch, nehmen die das dann schnell persönlich. Kitty z.B. ist ihrerseits sehr direkt (mag ich) und vertritt offen unpopuläre Meinungen (mag ich), eckt damit oft und gerne an. Kenne ich; ist egal, solange es zu einem Ziel führt, etwas bewegt. Du bist genauso. Das ist etwas Gutes. Ihr fühlt Euch aber beide sehr leicht angegriffen, unterschätzt, mißachtet oder ignoriert. Da verleitet Euch zu ausführlichen Erklärungen, die aus meiner Sicht gar nicht nötig wären.
Meine Bitte und Empfehlung wäre: laßt (beide ;-)) diese persönlichen Befindlichkeiten außen vor; sie stören einen kreativen und ambitionierten Prozeß.
Was die inhaltlichen Fragen betrifft: es ist auf dem Steem nicht anders als im richtigen Leben. Nicht jeder Künstler ist gut darin, sich selbst zu vermarkten. Aus diesem Gund gibt es Agenten, die sich um diese Seite der Kunst kümmern. Ich glaube nicht, daß eine Community, wie hier auf der Plattform, diese Rolle voll umfänglich übernehmen kann: Community leben fordert Gemeinschaftssinn und rege Interaktion - das können die Künstler, die ohnehin kein Problem haben, ihre Werke zu promoten! Die anderen sind nicht für diese Art Marketing offen. Und wenn ich sage, gute Kunst setzt sich durch, meine ich nicht, als Selbstläufer, als Automatismus. Sie muß vermittelt werden.
Kannst Du Dir eine Art Maklerrolle vorstellen? Ich habe nicht die Zeit, so etwas anzubieten (und nicht die Idee, wie man das unterer mehreren aufteilen könnte...) Das wäre ein Schritt in die richtige Richtung. Nicht das Voten von Posts der Künstler. Der Steem ist meilenweit davon entfernt, Grundlage eines existenzsichernden Einkommens zu sein. Nicht Delegationen - die nur Sinn machen, wenn ein Künstler bereit und in der Lage ist, sich mit anderen Bloggern auseinanderzusetzen, sich einzubringen. Außerdem - noch weniger direkter Effekt.
Es sollte nicht Sinn der Sache sein, talentierte Leute umzuerziehen, sich so und so zu verhalten (das geht auch wieder etwas in Deine Richtung, liebe Kitty ;-))
Dazu gehört auch der Punkt der Auswahlkriterien. Bitte, macht keine Ausschreibungen, keine Bewerbungsverfahren, keine Juryentscheidungen daraus! Das empfinde ich offline bereits als extrem ungerecht und selektiv. Geht aktiv auf die Suche nach Kunst, die Euch anspricht. Nach Künstlern, in denen Ihr Potential seht. Und die fördert, wie auch immer es sich am Ende darstellen wird. Reagiert auf Empfehlungen, auf Hinweise aus der Community - jeder hat irgendwo einen Leser oder Follower, dem ein bestimmter Stil gefällt.
Also: macht die Steemians allgemein darauf aufmerksam daß sie sich als Kunst-Scout betätigen können - Empfehlung an Euch, kleiner Bonus als Dankeschön. Beobachtung der Empfohlenen, bei positiver Einschätzung Kontaktaufnahme und dann Austausch über Situation und Bedürfnisse.
Um ein paar weitere großherzige Spender guter Gedanken zu animieren: vielleicht mögen @ronthroop, @stef1 oder @udabeu sich zu Wort melden?
I am still, after 4 years, not as nimble on the platform as I’d like to be. I could not find the original thread of the conversation, but am glad to have been included as one who could give his two cents worth.
The part about Steemit not paying a living wage is food for thought. Granted, I love the platform as a place to accumulate dollars and cents, and I get that artists (or any content-makers for that matter), should not have their time taxed doing things to please others for likes and pennies. That’s why I don’t participate in contests or “detailing my process”, as I’ve been asked to do many times. The making of art is my full time occupation. I don’t need to show process to all and sundry for nickels and dimes. I don’t do it on Instagram for free, nor will I do it here for a pittance. I’m a Stuckist, and my duty is to harness and ride the wild Internet in order to exhibit my work. I love Steemit for the bright minds and the fact that when turned on, some even toss me a “tip” to encourage more expression.
One thing for certain... I love to share my art, take it or leave it. The last thing I ever expect is for any one to like it. I don’t even like it that much. I paint to attack the ego, to punish it, to make it feel bad. I want to show everything I do, so everyone can see I’m nothing much, just like them. Or something godlike, just like them. I don’t write and paint for money or fame; I think I do it to exhaust my ego eventually, and start a garden and then shut up.
Time and persistence will tell:)
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Thanks for your time commenting. If you go to the top of this page, you can find the link to Hefestus Editions, where all the posts regarding this subject are published. Your observations are of value and I will include them in the Next update to the White Paper proposal.
Cheers.
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Thanks for the direction.
Cheers to you too!
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Lake Ontario must be wonderful. One must paint or write. Or pull the thread of the reapers very easily in your latitude. Art is that need to create, which the artist has. The structures and laws of art matter little. When you create, you are a God creator of worlds. You are creating. There is no time for petty technicalities. Everything revolves around the creative act and the feelings that emerge. It is the inner struggle of what is being born on paper, on canvas, in the air. What do human miseries matter? Art is. It prevails. You are, the artist. Consider yourself the artist. You don't need to prove anything. Your art is your child that already has a life of its own. You will know the father through the son. You will be recognized.
The one who writes thinking about what he could earn, (maybe, he is not an artist). You write or paint or compose because it is a necessity. So you are going to be creating your work, even if there is, or not, any of these new structures with ridiculous paradigms. So I understand what you're saying: that you're not writing or creating to please anyone but yourself. Least of all for a derisory price. History is full of artists who died with limitations, but their works are like the sun. They melt the waxen wings of those who try to get too close. There is no magic rule: what is good in art, does everything have an audience? Money should be the consequence of the quality of your work. Can your art go unnoticed? Would that matter? Would you stop creating your work because it is not valued?
I will create. The universe will bring the answer. On a sunny morning. It would be sunny as hell. With eight little kids flying a kite. The noise and frothing of someone in agony. Maybe without an ear demanded by a prostitute. A single painting sold, sadly, to a friend. Two thousand paintings to prove the address. Sunflowers and almond blossoms.
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I haven’t had my tea and coffee shots. So I respond with choppy gratitude.
Thank you for the insight, which I agree with en total, though could never express so fluidly. It means a lot when people take the time to take the time:)
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An excellent reflection that I also agree with. I will bring it into the Second Update.
Cheers.
P.S. - I'll contact you later today.
so that's where it is: duh Hefestus Editions. Do I see it in the list of communities?
Excellent statement about art and artists. Some are strange.
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I was sure, but...
https://steemit.com/communities
No, I didn't find. I don't know about some filter algorithms may be included.
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Me either I just looked too. There's a lot I never knew about. I saw a mention of Art and Artists, Forever Steemit write once get paid Forever. But no Hefestus Editions!
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Thanks for your candure. I understand my personal feelings took way too much space in the First Update, but I really hate to leave things unsaid. In this case, unwritten.
Once again, I thank you for a great contribution,
Pedro
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That's not a bad thing. But it's distracting from the essentials...
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I'm sure the Second update will have none of it inside. :)
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