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RE: "The Hunters And Gatherers Issue" - An Open Letter To My Future Ex Affair
Sometimes I wonder if some humans have far less vasopressin than others. Could that explain why some stay monogamous and others do not? How interesting would it be if we could measure this?
I still think science can answer all kinds of important questions, even about love.
I fully agree. I also believe that Science always finds a logical answer and that's why I chose it as main tag, hoping somebody would jump on that train, haha. So you did. Thanks for that :-)
I loved the video, especially the "brain on Koke" part, haha! We all know that butterfly craziness pretty well I guess.
So it's about chemistry in the end?
You're right: it would be interesting to measure it... But then the hunters wouldn't find someone to marry ever again :)
Thanks for your valuable adding, Luke! I appreciated it much.
Chemistry? Yes. :) It's like when my kids are frustrated, they know to come get some Oxytocin from a 30 second hug.
This.
Haha, love it!
Oxytocin I know well, in fact every chemical mentioned in this video I'm well versed in except the one relating directly to this post...and I may be showing a level of ignorance I shouldn't, but I have never heard of vasopressin until just now. I am torn on whether to thank you cheerfully -since I'm a huge fan of learning new things, in fact my grandmother told me the secret to preventing senility was to learn something new everyday, she never went a day without her crossword puzzles and she was sharp as a tack right up to the day she died- or with a bit of melancholy, because I am the one who would still hear santa's sleigh bell, (polar express reference) who loves the idea of magic and mystery. A conundrum.
I can't speak for others, and while I can't deny that the chemistry described for romantic love doesn't sound exactly like it was when I met my husband at eighteen, twenty years later all I can say is I just simply adore him. He's my best friend and confidante, desirable to me in all ways from the way his brain works to everything else. We know one another inside and out, but it's never been stagnant or boring, we can still talk for hours, and while we'll certainly be nostalgic when our children go off on their own, we're also excited about the possibilities and new adventures that will provide. Can vasopressin really explain all of that? I doubt it, there are too many factors interwoven, private jokes wouldn't disappear, and neither would all of the memories, or the way we still challenge each other, and quest with questions together....
sorry, this is becoming a post of its own! :)
Well, removing vasopressin sure impacted the prairie voles... so... who knows. Either way, a successful marriage involves effort and is awesome. I'm 13 years in and love it all around. I'm glad yours works well for you. :)
It did, but I do think the ability to think and reason, have foresight and hindsight, all of the things humans have that animals, (as far as we know,) do not, plays a role outside of instinct and chemistry :) Loving it all around after many years is always awesome to hear! :)
Have you seen conversations with Koko or some of the amazing things elephants, dolphins, ravens, and more can do? We may not be the only ones with the ability to think and reason with foresight and hindsight. We might just do it a lot better than any other currently. There's a video I saw recently about the complex problems ravens could figure out that blew my mind.
Actually, yes, I do believe that animals are capable of a lot more than is generally recognized.
But I've given the subject of 'feelings' a great deal of thought. I grew up in a strict christian household-by strict I mean faith in church doctrine, Jesus as the only way to Heaven, any other path leads to eternal hell etc. My parents are actually very loving people, it just happens to be what they truly believe through and through, and I was told this from the time I could think. So let's just say that I've not come across a level of brainwashing as unbelievably difficult to overcome than this.
But when I did force myself to face the many discrepancies, when it became apparent that I wasn't capable of the blind faith expected of me, I went through a period of mourning initially and then a long period where I was numb. Like every single chemical that produces feelings got shut off. I was in my later twenties and my children were about four and seven. But even though I was scarily void emotion wise, I still wanted my family to be well on an intellectual level, I logically knew how important it was for my kids to feel loved. I also knew that it was occurring because I had lost my center and my foundation and therefore I needed to find out what those things were. I had to rebuild myself from the bottom up, a task so initially overwhelming that I'm certain it's the reason I shut down.
My husband helped by taking over a lot of the things I would normally do, like reading at bedtime etc. And he listened when I wanted to talk, was silent when I didn't. And, long story short, I made it through the 'dark age', my children the none the wiser. (They actually do know about it now, they're teenagers and we discuss everything ;)
My point here is that as much as animals are capable of, I don't think they're capable of knowing that they've become emotionally or psychologically damaged and in knowing this then able to mostly function as before until they heal. To "Act as if" To "fake it till you make it" . lol.
I could be wrong though. I am not one to put definite's on things, if there's anything I know for sure it's that there is a whole hell of a lot I don't know :)
That sounds so beautiful, @dreemit and I'm incredibly happy for you!
I don't think chemistry can explain everything. Probably it's a mix of all these elments put together. Whatever it is: keep it up!
Big hugs!!!
Good point however modern society / ladies will never accept a man being polygamous and open about it hence why many tend to lie in order to satisfy their urge for new , sweet and fresh thing!!!! men are polygamous in nature only descipline and society plus real/ extreme love will make a man to be monogamous . However some women (married or in relationship) are even worse . But still we should be able to control ourselves
however modern society / ladies will never accept a man being polygamous and open about it
That is a judgment and a little too general. I think the emphasis is on "being open (and honest) about it" which I think was also Marly's point.
When you're not open about it, you take her choice (voice) away. That's the worst thing you can do to "a modern woman" these days. (Not you personally of course ;))
And even a monogamous woman might have phases in her life where she's single and takes a break from monogamy - why not? As long as she can make a conscious choice about it.
The "modern woman" just doesn't like lies :)
Good point, however no human being like lies including the old school or ancient women (however society or traditon silenced them ) Human spirit and emotions should be respected (on both sides)
yes, true!
Thanks my dear. In addition to my last comment, feel free to join the conversation in my new post about future of steem...it will motivate you more about steem . More success to you.
Thanks for this one, I couldn't agree more! :)
Point for you, @connecteconomy!
I wonder if there was ever any woman who liked that...
True. But we can't know for sure that there wasn't... ;)
I actually could imagine social circumstances, or silent agreements where people prefer to be lied to (in order not to have to deal with something they don't want to deal with, or whatever). Interesting thing to ponder.
I think the "men are polygamous by nature" argument isn't a closed one, though I did read Sex at Dawn which does make some interesting points along those lines. The nature vs. nurture debate is a tricky one we're still trying to tease out. With many hundreds or even thousands of years, is it possible women could be socially conditioned to respond sexually to visual stimuli? It's not an easy question to answer. Until we know the specifics on a biological level, it's tricky to say, though when it comes to different sexes, the hormone chemicals involved do seem to be an obvious difference. Maybe we're way off topic now, I'm not sure. Hahah.
Good video, thanks for sharing.
blame it on excessive testosterone haha
your points are valid, however it depends on societal perception of good and wrong in that regard. Our forefathers were crowned heros if they can marry upto 10+ wives and take care of all (you know what I mean) -which showed wealth too (hundreds of years ago and I remember, do you?) however , it is no longer cool in our modern society which I find great because it is less stressful for gentle men like us!!!
Also interesting to consider how in some cultures where women routinely go topless, seeing female breasts is no big deal. While in others a nude ankle might drive someone crazy. So clearly there is a cultural component to it, and this video pretends there is none. Why would they do that unless they are going for simple answers to complex questions?
Also interesting how in many species it's the males who invest in peacock feather approaches with visual stimuli to get the females. Then there's the difference in investment of offspring to consider and so much more.
Another good anylsis especially with regard to animal kingdom where my dog , hyenas , Lion et al mark their territtory with Urine and even use it to lure the opposite sex
Moreover, after seeing @surfermarly pic in this post, many men will like what they see...including me , (even if I were to be a catholic priest ) however I will pray for self control....
This is nonsense.
Yes. It's already taking place.
In a way, but I've never heard of it working out in the long term. I'm sure there is an exception somewhere :)
I've got some friends in Germany who are happily living like that since a couple of years. It wouldn't be my concept, but I admire that they have chosen it :-)
I agree with you however not totally nonsense my freind. It depends on who you meet. Never say nonsense to a view point which can be backed by real life examples. .Pls join the conversation in my new post where I referenced you . Wish you and your team more success
Wir müssen uns treffen in Nurnberg
It's a personal choice. If you want to be a player though, don't lie to someone saying you're not one. ;-)
Yeah, it definitely is a choice - like always :) Plus: there is nothing wrong with having 10 affairs at the same time (when all of these 10 don't believe/hope they are the only ones).
I wonder if there's a correlation between those who want to be a player and those who are willing to lie in order to increase their chances of playing the most number of people. I suspect there is.
That said, if polyamory was more socially acceptable, I also wonder if that would change people's perceptions, biases, and opinions on monogamy/polyamory. If people were cool with it, there'd be no motivation to lie. Ultimately, it should come down to consent and what works best for our species, I guess.
Absolutely! I even believe that "open relationships" are a very healthy concept in the end. In this post I didn't want to judge at all, I hope that was clear :-) Everybody should find their own path, as long as they don't lie.