Why Flagging is Important
Coming to a Consensus
When the community of Steemians was much smaller back in late 2016, reaching consensus worked very differently. The blockchain math was different too. There was a time when post rewards paid out in 24 hours before it moved to the week-long window. Upvote strengths (according to each users’ stake) has also changed. Each and every rule resulted in new norms with respect to which content “deserved” rewards. Today, the Steem community is growing rapidly and exists just ahead of a big new normal; Smart Media Tokens. Right now, communities of different generations are grappling with one another to find a healthy rubric to strive ahead with. As debates develop, it’s important to know about all the tools that the Steem protocol provides us with.
So, let’s talk about Flagging
Especially for a new user, it can be an absolute mystery in terms of what flagging is and when/how it should be used. In today’s post, we’ll look at a series of suggestions for this specific functionality of the Steem blockchain.
How does flagging work?
Flagging is the exact inverse of upvoting. This might seem obvious at first, similar to how a ‘dislike’ is the opposite of a ‘like’ on Youtube, but there are a few key differences as to how this functions with the DPoS Steem blockchain.
First, your flag/downvote still expends voting power. Within your daily allotment of voting power that decreases with each upvote, you can use some of that voting strength to take away rewards rather than give them. As such, there’s a limit in which you can take away certain amounts of payouts per day depending on your stake.
Second, the downvote also affects ratings inversely if the flagger has a higher reputation (according to the Steemit FAQ). Flagging an account with a particular voting strength will decrease their rating according to the same algorithm that calculates how much received voting is needed to progress from 53 to 54 reputation for example.
Lastly, it should be noted that unlike upvoting, you gain no curation rewards by downvoting anyone. You cannot earn rewards for downvoting. (Though in the past there has been a cheeky debate in the past about “Dark Steem” rewards… it would be pretty cool to earn Dark Steem for flagging, right? Maybe one day.)
Checks and Balances
Since flagging also eats up voting strength, it should be used more strategically than a ‘dislike’ on traditional social-media sites. Here are some of the scenarios in which we would recommend a flag -
Disagreement on Rewards:
This is one of the more interpretative judgements for flagging. Essentially, if you believe that someone’s payout is disproportionately high or is in some way abusing upvote services for example, your flag can be a signal that their practices are not in the best interest of the community and/or reward pool.Fraud or Plagiarism:
The crypto world is fraught with unsavory behavior anywhere from phishing scams to simple copy/paste plagiarism. If you believe that content or comments are unethical in anyway, flagging is an effective way to dissuade negative actions and make them less visible.Hate Speech or Internet Trolling:
This is another example of unproductive and aggressive behavior that could warrant a downvote. If something seems legitimately malicious, flag away!Intentional miss-categorized content or Spam:
It takes a learning curve to realize what is “appropriate” behavior on Steemit. There are many nuances of preferred blogging practices, there are certain tags that are appropriate and others that aren’t (i.e. tagging a popular subject that has zero relevance to the content of your post) and of course lot’s of spammy comments.
Looking Ahead
None of these ‘rules’ are strict or well-defined and are of course up to user subjectivity. This is why ongoing discussions of specific examples are absolutely necessary as the “right vs. wrong” in any case is not clearly defined. The target is also constantly moving and the interpretation of what is good or bad practice is so determinant on market prices, social health on the platform, community features, activity, and so much more.
We’re interested on hearing your experiences with flagging as well. Do you use the function in other scenarios than the ones we defined? Are there any changes you would make? Let us know in the comments below!
Exploring More @sndbox Steemit Toolkits
Thanks for reading! We hope you found this Flag walkthrough useful. Take a look at our full outline of resource / tutorial posts here. If you have any questions please don’t hesitate to reach out in the comment section.
Check out the Steemit FAQ page to learn more!
I see huge problems ahead connected to the down vote function.
Right now we see two separate initiatives being implemented by what appears to be the same individual.
The first as most people will be aware, is the ongoing flag war against @haegin. This was originally initiated by the publishing of fictitious claims regarding the amount of rewards he had received.
I find it deeply disturbing that that so many people have allowed themselves to be drawn into this scam, while the original initiator is now mostly sitting back and enjoying the show.
The second is the attempted take over and own the vote selling market. Again this is being implemented with attacking individual accounts who purchase up votes from certain vote sellers.
If we want to create a space that is not controlled by the same psychopathic forces that are destroying the planet, we need to make changes to how we allow the down vote function to be used, without taking away our ability to defend against hostile forces.
Well said. @joe.public, I appreciate your comments every time I read them.
Thanks @danpaulson I really appreciate the feedback.
I get so disheartened with all the abuse that goes on here.
I do flag what I consider to be spam comments. It will usually only be with a few percent of a vote unless it's something serious like phishing where we need the comments to be hidden. I want spam to sink to the bottom of the comments on my posts. I've come across very little seriously offensive content here.
I would consider flagging those who are selfishly just taking from the system, but I'm wary of retaliation.
Retaliation is a big issue with flagging, absolutely.
We like the idea of "Dark Steem" which used to float around... where (perhaps) you could earn curation rewards for flagging content in the same way that you earn "Steem" for upvoting content. This might provide some necessary incentive for flagging, rather than pure risk of retaliation. Food for thought! As communities here develop surely there will be more structured policing ideas modeled off of the way SteemCleaners and Cheetah have worked, etc.
Some of us are happy to curate for no reward. An improved Steemit is worth it.
Amen bro, I am reading this articles because I consider its way too important to cleanse steemit, but I don't want to do it wrong and hurt someones account for no reason or when instead you can promote a better use of the platform. Its hard to tell when theyre doing it blatantly and when its an honest mistake.
There are plenty of accounts where it's very obvious what they are doing. Generally those have no community support. I think it may be best to join one of the groups who deal with it, such as @SteemFlagRewards. Plenty of discussion about the issues in their Discord.
Thanks a lot, this is quite useful, complete noob even to cryptocurrency, I saw flag rewards but was wary that I might be some kind of scheme. I still kinda think that if steemit didn't want to reward flagging it should stay that way. Hopefully the platform grows stronger and adapts to this issues.
Amen @steevc!
Allowing rewards still wouldn't stop the assholes like @berniesanders from downvoting people with his 20 accounts because they disagree with his actions and dislike him as a person in general.
If flags could somehow not affect rewards and be forwarded to witnesses to decide on whether a post is hidden or rewards are taken, that would potentially stop this kind of abuse.
Yea its probably a smart idea to only flag those who have similar or less SP than you, at least the way it is today. I would never flag a whale or even a strong dolphin these days as the risk is simply too great. It's like suing a billionaire.
I am wary of that. Some people have set up flagging bots you can delegate to. It's not totally anonymous, but it makes you less obvious, especially if they can gain many supporters
hey @steevc I am wondering how you define 'selfishly just taking from the system'
To me the first thing that comes to mind is vote selling.
Vote selling is reward pool rape!
There are s one who just vote for themselves and don't support the community. I'm some cases they are making serious money. We can each make our own judgements
Hey @sreevc Yes there are people who mostly vote themselves here and there are very selfish people in the rest of world as well.
Do you really believe that attacking people for self voting a viable solution to create a positive change in behavior?
Have you seen the abusive trolling going on? Are you supportive of that as well?
How do you think potential investors looking at Steemit would feel looking at that level of abuse ?
especially when the worst offenders are being rewarded for it!
Given the state of this place the price of Steem should be about $0.50 NZD
Voting and flagging are tools for curation. They can be used and abused. I want to see good content get the rewards out deserves.
Do you believe that you have skills which surpass those of other users of the platform to decided which content 'deserves' a payout and which does not ?
If this abuse is not curbed it will hinder the growth of the platform and i am thinking that is exactly what some people here are aiming for.
Who is qualified to judge? How much SP you have should not determine that. I rarely flag, but it will be for blatant spam and cynical money grabs. Only the whales can deal with the worst cases. I want Steemit to be a good experience for those who come with good intentions. Of course some will try to exploit it. That is why we need moderation tools. My power of fairly low, but I do what I can.
buying votes is necessary for people with smaller followings though. if you want to hit trending or hot you HAVE to buy the votes unless you have thousands of followers.
however, some people do abuse it so I can agree with you on that.
I believe most people don’t get flagging. And I know a lot of good no great Steemians who quit the ecosystem over the past flag wars, I took a 3 month break last year after being attacked. I can see it’s value for stopping spam etc but when it’s used indiscriminately it’s nit a positive thing for the platform.
Hi @stephen-somers when I first arrived here i used the flag the same way as i used the thumbs down on youtube. So I flagged a few posts and probably comments that i did not agree with. Then I stopped flagging when I realized the the differences between a thumbs down and a flag.
Your rep seems to have recovered nicely : )
I imagine it would probably be in the high 60s at least without the flag wars impact but I’m glad it’s still where it is.
yea I know what its like @sneak was not happy about being called out for making abusive comments so ended up with a rep of 12
At least that behavior lets us know clearly who the unstable people are without room for doubt.
Flagging is bad. If you give man a club, he will smash someone had for a "greater good" as he sees it. The only way to total freedom is a total invulnerability. With a flags steemians are vulnerable, so they a tend to use it vs others and need protection. War of the flags will be only worse. And as any war, this will be sucking a blood of life ((
To be honest most of the paid for posts on the trending page could do with a good flagging.
The Minnows trying to make a few cents and contacts through a nonsense comment seem to think it is their only way to play the game because they see such abuse and reward pool rape from the bigger accounts. I believe this has to be fixed from the top down.
Flagging only seems to works when whales are fighting. Just my two cents
My aplogies but I dont know if flagging is a fixed appropriate action. Not only it is subjective but also, subject for abuse. What if someone with a great reputation has a personal grudge on a newbie, the one with great rep can do anything to downvote/degrade the minnow.
Good points @leebaong, overall flagging is very misunderstood. Because most users talk purely about upvotes and the rewards, which makes it much harder to have a balanced conversation about flagging (an equally important feature of the Steem blockchain).
Lot's of flagging is subjective, but it will probably evolve just as this platform evolves.
I actually somewhat favor the act of flagging. I've seen a lot of generic comments which sometimes irritates my stillness. I'm just afraid of the subjective abuse! Though thanks to the community, I've never been flagged yet. Hopefully, will never be.
Openness though still lives in me. One reason why I love steemit is I learned a lot of ideas and I'm open for it. Development needs conflict of ideas to come up with a strong outcome.
Very good point.... They big guys get to use flagging to deal with someone with low rep..
Am pretty sure it happens
Some people just love to drop comments thats are totally unrelated to the post.I think first of all, they should read the post & then they should give their comment which are relevant to the post. If not post author should flag that comments.
Definitely! Spammy comments and wallet memos are everywhere these days. It's important to stay on topic and if done well, there's a high probability that the author will reward strong feedback.
Thanks for this important information. As for me am still learning a lot on how this community works. I have learnt about how upvoting and downvoting are used and why flagging occurs. Just hope some new guys here read this. Thanks
@sndbox I definitely think you should make a post about muting people. As @steevc there are some bad actors posting phishing links but not all of us have enough power to hide the spammy comments. A good option is to mute the person so you will never see their comments again.
Nice idea! A post on under-appreciated features would be fun. "Muting" being one of them for sure. Thanks for your feedback @walnut1 :)
Yes! Definitely an under-appreciated feature :)
I guess the biggest barrier to flagging bad/harmful content is the fear of being flagged back.
At least for minnows like me.
Hopefully the perception changes, because flagging is actually a very healthy way to moderate reward distribution and dissuade harmful content. Right now, with the community being so young, it's certainly harder for minnows to flag and not feel the dangers of being flagged back indiscriminately.
There is way too much bullying that happens this way. Especially with bots, flag wars are real, and weight class is all that matters here. Its a hard problem with no good solution.
I think for now we more flagging bots to create power for flagging but also anonymity. Through delegated SP and a curated bot to prevent abuse. Something like this would be a bit cumbersome and require a kind of dispute process, but we need a way to flag whales and dolphins who only act to siphon power away from steem.