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RE: Reputational Enhanced Delegated Proof-of-Stake (REDPOS)

in #blockchain • 5 years ago

"Outsiders can't just create REP in a minute and take the whole chain (like Justin Sun suckpuppets did). If STEEM had a REDPOS protocol, he would at least needed to start a "stealth" attack first (create the suckpuppets and "work" on them to adquire enough REP to guarantee a good witness rank)."

Actually, with the stake Sun has, he could quickly buy the highest rep on the platform from vote sellers, in only a day or two. At least the way Steem rep is now.

The account age is also not foolproof, although it's better. I just found an acount this last week that has been here since 2016 but made it's first comment that day. They've been delegating to bots during their entire tenure on Steem, but not socializing at all.

While this is an outlier account, and it's pretty hard to imagine anyone setting up an account and waiting for years for it to be usable for some kind of illicit attack on governance, I also know of users that have claimed to have ~10k accounts, and presumably have simply been adding accounts since they got here, and got here early. I am pretty sure there are a lot of users with a lot of accounts, although 10k is, again, an outlier.

Because there are so many of these 'pre-aged' accounts, I don't think account age is a functional rep mechanism we can count on much either, although it might be very useful to look at account youth with suspicion instead.

I do appreciate your interesting ideas, and don't want to discourage you from having good ideas, but do think the criticisms I've brought to your attention should prompt you to think more, and have even better ideas. One of the problems with society is how rep works IRL, and that's why we get such shitty politicians in office.

Pretty sure I don't want the same combination of self-aggrandizing psychopaths with piles of money buying their way to power over Steem. Oh wait..

Anyway, I hope I didn't communicate that I have no interest or respect for this concept. I do think it's incomplete as I have understood it. I do think it can be better than DPoS, at least the bungled interpretation of DPoS we have atm, but I think rep needs to be improved before it can be used to decentralize governance in the way you want to use it.

Thanks!

5 years ago in #blockchain by
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     5 years ago (edited)

    Thanks for your contribution @valued-customer! For REP I mean "a better REP system" (i.e. as @blocktrades is working on). Also a REDPOS uses a combination of human activity related parameters.

    You could let an account "age", but then again, it's just one parameter. For it to have a REP greater than 25, that account needs to have some sort of activity. It needs to be "worked".

    So such an attack costs more and is harder to execute than the current attack going on STEEM. I'm just proposing a definition of what a REDPOS protocol would be, I'm not a coder. It relies on a well coded REP system, the current one has been defined as a "bandaid" arrangement.

    So a REDPOS implemented with a better REP system should be stronger than a REDPOS implemented with a bad REP system.

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     5 years ago 

    "...such an attack costs more and is harder to execute than the current attack going on STEEM."

    That's true, but I think the important question is whether it would be harder enough.

    I am not familiar with @blocktrades efforts to improve rep. It definitely needs improvement IMHO. However, as I pointed out, IRL rep is highly subjective and individual, and that's most of why it's useful. I don't see some kind of standardized rep that's calculable as emulating that utility.

    Thanks again.

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     5 years ago 

    I think we should not shy away from the subjective nature of it. Nobody is expected to get along with everyone. That is how it should be on here.

    In a shameless shilling of my own ideas, I posted my take and proposed solution on rep a couple of days ago. It's on my blog if you'd like to voice your opinion.

    In the end,I think it will take a number of different systems which conclude on rep in different ways. Having several points of views will allow dapps and users a better picture of who/what various accounts are.

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     5 years ago 

    Don't be shy about posting a link to your proposal, doing now for you: Steem Proposal - Account Rating System

    From your proposal:

    To put it another way, no belief or opinion is more valid than another. Therefore, such a system could not include stake as a variable.

    I don't agree, stake related vote is a meassure that turns a sybil attack into a costly endeavour.

    Also experience makes certain opinions more qualified than other ones.

    It's not logic to put the same value on a witness with 0 year experience at the same level of a witness with 4 year experience. When you are looking for a job, that's an important item.

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       5 years ago 

      Agreed. It's about two different subjects:

      A) Protocol philosophy. If REDPOS protocol is an improvement over DEPOS for a social blockchain.

      B) If a specific implementation on a certain protocol is a better system than what exists today.

      I strongly believe that REDPOS is a protocol philosophy that represents an evolution over DEPOS.

      But I am no developer. It's out of my reach to produce such an implementation. It would need really good developers to produce a "NEWSTEEM on REDPOS". Just wishing some good ones, understand the need to evolve DPOS and maybe work on some REDPOS alike implementation.