RE: "my cold, dead hand"
Hey.
You know, the factor that has very little to do with this is the one you cite as most important : population size. I have to say I am a little surprised that a thoughtful poster like yourself would make such an error.
The UK, where I grew up the population is obviously less than the US, but density wise, it is far, far higher than America. If the suggestion is that more people equates to more violence (an incorrect suggestion, if it is), then America should be one of the most peaceful countries on the planet.
You then say that:
You simply are not dealing with the vast numbers of socioeconomic inequality that we are here in America
Are you sure? To start with, if you think that is the factor, why cite population as being the most "critical" aspect? These are two separate things. And secondly, are you sure about that statement? It sounds like an assumption to me. A quick Google suggests that the US might (this is very complex) have greater inequality, but the differences are far from stark between the two countries.
I don't know the official numbers of gun crime or deaths in all of Europe though. Any estimates or official statistics?
What do you think? You'll have to cut me a little slack this morning, as I am laid up with flu and am not in the cheeriest of humours , but if you are serious about discussing this critical subject, then you need to up your game. Of course such statistics exist. And the comparison with the US really demonstrates that America is an outlier in terms of developed western countries. The gun death rates are vastly higher. Vastly.
statistically there are issues here that are resulting in FAR larger numbers of deaths that are not getting the political attention guns do
You might be right. Then can I ask that you put some meat on the bones here? You are alluding to something, but I don't know what. Is it America's opiate problem? Whatever it is, I do agree that it warrants attention, but I am not sure what is has to do with this debate.
I am very happy to discuss this complex topic, and I do apologise for my brusque response, but I find you a little frustrating because you are clearly an intelligent poster, but you are relying too much on unqualified opinions and your instinct. There is a wealth of information out there, and you need to start using it!
BTW, the EU is patently not trying to run Europe under a single government...
I am not saying larger population leads to more violence, I'm speaking about Economies of Scale. The countries of the UK are not dealing with the inequalities spread out over such large geographic regions. Because of the density, it is perhaps easier or more cost effective to serve the underserved. The overreach of our federal system and the imbalances it faces are not reflected in any single country or the EU as a whole.
Correct, the EU has to deal with stronger levels of national autonomy than any states within the US. However, it still has a considerable number of gun deaths - though less "violence": old data http://www.flemishpeaceinstitute.eu/6700-deaths-firearms-eu-each-year
Hey, if you can do google searches for one thing, you can do them for another. None of this is opinion...in my opinion :)
I have no narrative, only observations. Get over that flu
We all have a narrative, Michael. Everything is subjective, pretty much, and we are all at the mercy of how we have developed and what we have experienced.
I am happy to accept that America has its own set of challenges, but trust me, there are an awful lot of "underserved" people in the EU. There are a lot of inner-city problems and poverty. I have to say that I don't understand the point you are making here with respect to economies of scale. That's not to say your point is invalid! I genuinely don't understand the distinction you are seeking to make here.
The source you cited says that 1000 people are murdered by guns in the EU annually. That's 1000 in a population of nearly 750m people. America, by contrast, has 10000 murders in a population of 325m.
That's a gigantic difference, I am sure you would agree.
I have a feeling that we probably agree more than we disagree here. We seem to be making heavy weather of it, though!
The divide is too big between us to continue this conversation effectively
That's disappointing, but if you don't see any mileage in talking then it is pointless to try.