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RE: 3 BIG FAT LIES THAT IS BELIEVED AND PREACHED BY MAINSTREAM CHURCHES
Please explain what Jesus meant when He said "I and the Father are one." Then explain how Jesus was the creator of the world before He was born. Then explain how Jesus could be God and be limited as a man, while at the same time being the One who holds the world together.
John 17:20-23. Jesus prays to God, that we would be one as they are one. One in mind, spirit, and love. It does not mean we are to become God. I hope that helps. I can't answer the rest because it just doesn't make sense. I can only explain what the Bible says and teaches.
Okay, I don't really understand how this is anti-Trinitarian. If Jesus is one in mind, spirit, and love with God, and the bible says God is love, and God is Spirit, how does this go against the idea of Trinity?
Nobody is trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes here. The reason Christians believe in the Trinity is because it makes sense of what Jesus and the New Testament writers say about Him. Also, there's the whole idea of the "Word of God" and the "Angel of God" and "Wisdom of God" all of which are personified in the Old Testament as YHWH.
Jesus said, "If you have seen me you have seen the Father." How can that be interpreted any way other than Jesus claiming to be God? Isn't that why the Jews wanted to stone Him?
Jesus forgives sins, which only God can do(Mark 2:5). Jesus calls Himself "I Am" the name YHWH revealed Himself to Moses as (John 8:58). Jesus said He is the First and the Last, which is a title for YHWH in Isaiah.(rev 1:17, Is 44:6)
I don't see any way around it but to say that Jesus is either who He said He was, God Almighty, or He wasn't. If He was, in what sense could He pray to the Father?
Jesus said that he was the son of God, the Christ. It's much simpler than you realize. I have no desire to argue, I just wish to share the truth with others.
I'm not trying to argue with you, I just asked you to explain your point of view. If you can't, okay then. Have a nice day!
Your pride is your worst enemy. Be honest here, you really don't care about the answers.
No, I really want to know. Also, I'd like to know how you think you know me well enough to know what my worst enemy is.
I've heard some arguments against trinitarianism, but never anything that makes much sense of the things I asked you. If you think that answering my by insulting me is a good way to convince me I'm wrong, I'll let you know it's not. It really makes me more sure that you don't actually have any answers.
To keep on point, ask me a question and I will do my best to answer. I don't like answering many unrelated questions at the same time because it's too hard to make a proper discussion that way.
Okay, well in the interest of keeping on point, could you clarify what it it's you believe about Jesus? Is he God?
Jesus prayed that we MAY be one. But we're not one with God. We fall short. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. There is none good but God alone. Was Jesus good or wicked like other humans? If he was good, then he was also God. Also, nowhere in scripture does anyone claims to have existed before Abraham. You don't get your anti-Trinitarian objections from the Bible. Jesus prayed so he can't be God is not an objection when the answer to your objection is found in the Bible. He humbled himself and became man. He did not come to be worshiped or to be served. He came to serve and gave his life as a ransom for many. What's your next objection? Jesus went to toilet so he can't be God? Jesus died on the cross so he can't be God? When you don't understand the dual nature of Jesus, and you assume that everyone can have only one nature, you're bound to come up with silly objections like that.