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RE: Hardfork 21 - Steem Proposal System (SPS) + Economic Improvement Proposal (EIP)
Thank you very much tim, for a balanced thoughtful presentation of the ideas.
The amount of funding if the SPS is funded by inflation is also an important part.
While I am not strongly opposed to the bucket of changes, and can't support them until I hear how some of the details are worked out.
I much appreciate and honest break down of the issues.
Very dangerous ground in my opinion to drop them both at once and try to figure out which changes are having which impact.
Also, no one outside cares about this.
Edited to add:
Please tell me how other chains you are invested in handle their specific inflation POS or POW. (It's not the point, the point is most people don't know and don't care enough to have them memorized.
For sure. These changes are scorched earth and way too much at once. There might be some good aspects in there, but as a basket, this is pure poison. The more I've learned this week, I've gone from a soft and uncomfortable "yes" to a firm "no". Not only will the changes kill content; they also eliminate any remaining reason to own SP.
Actually, quiet the opposite IMHO.
Currently those without SP can easily upvote whatever with bid bots.
They earn (see: negative cost of promotion which itself is riddiculous).
Bit bots earn. Content, thus authors are irrelevant.
Even great posts earn very little if you look at organic vote values, because SP holders can easily profit on a behavior we don't want to see here. We want them to profit on a desired behavior. Pretty much this:
It's not that ridiculous,
Bidbots were a pain to use for normal people until not long ago
The current profit of about 5% has to be considered in the context of sending liquid and receiving vests.
No downvote mean that risking 95% for a 5% gain isn't even being countered on bad content.
@whatsup , @donkeypong , @gtg, true true and true , : too early to really have a conclusive opinion , too much at once and indeed, a picture of a steak gets about the same as a metafysical treaty on time or how to see anarchy lol ... in the end however, as systems and humans go, it does stand to reason that those in power will not vote for anything that damages themselves . . . bidbots and profit ? heh ... if you did that math, i did that for a while, its very dependen on the price over seven days, you get curation which isnt a set percentage, if you get 1% on top you're probably voting with small bots, who don't really make a dent in the pool with their value, if you go to the higher up actual profit from the vote itself becomes unlikely as their margins are lower.
I don't consider them evil things, they're just part of the system because the system has it in it. If any of the new rules are prone to anything that can be used, it will be done, thats just how it goes. If you make a bet on tipu or the bigger one for 50 dollar or more you're unlikely to get your 50 dollar back unless , as done with hitsingles since the beatles your position in the top ten shouts * -> popular <-* , musthave :p
If you look at steemit as a social media platform then the importance of bulk here seems to be highly underrated due to some elder rules instated at the start when it all came for free and the top witness could basically rake it in by sleeping. You can not expect 99% of posts to be world-changing, thats not how things are, but you need the bulk or you're left with a platform with a few 1000 posts a day because no one bothers and you get better money from youtube or something. it IS about the money after all, right thats what it says on the frontpage ... i doubt you reach much of the 'general populace' if i may be so bold as to call it that, considering the number of reactions you get here i'd say it's safe to say most do indeed not care to be engaged.
Halving author rewards in order to promote bigger entities ... that does sound indeed close to sponsoring the big five with money from the little billion (million in this case)
but until it's implemented and tested it's gonna be really hard to say. Any externsice plan, the more its planned ahead and the more complicated it gets gains also by that more chance at flaws and failures, purely statistical, so ...
here's hoping it goes gradually, not over one single fork and seriously considered with an option to rollback in a very short time the moment ugly beetles and backdoors no one thought of (which is normal) start popping up. It's better to go steady than to go fast, if steem stays around a dollar than so be it, it's not limited amount anyway
AND (lol)
It's not the smallfry who will bottom out the price, if all the plankton with steem accounts would sell of everything by tomorrow i doubt it would make much of a dent.
It needs to stay attractive for the general user, that's a fact but as for the rest i havent read nearly enough of the included links and im probably five posts behind on steemitblog itself, so im not gonna start making suggestions or anything, and beside i'm nobody anyway but thanks @timcliff , i think you're one of the first witnesses i voted on here, you're pretty level, i can appreciate that :D
the thing where it says separated downvote pool sounds scary but i havent read up on it, i personally have been a hudge fan of removing negative voteweight but havent studied the whitepaper either so i dont even know if that's possible : my point being if you succeed in onboarding huge brandnames that compete ... coca/pepsi, to name two, you can't have that ...
gud, and here i was not going to talk ... im gonna continue a bit on my brand lol, eta due 2050 i think, if by then it's still worth the time hahah
(sick sense of humour, j/k, we'll see, i just seriously hope they take it easy and one step at a time and don't get caught up in some dopamine-rush, that could end with a serious hangover)
el Gato out :p
Not only do they not work on SMTs, but the things they are working on will destroy this chain...
don't forget... "We think, mostly hope". :)
Hypocrite behind Steem Flag Rewards who flags ppl for using copy written pics DOES IT IN HIS OWN BLOGS! LOL
https://busy.org/@kawaiicrush/the-people-who-are-behind-steem-flag-rewards-and-flag-for-using-copy-written-pics-do-it-in-their-own-blogs-lol
I flag trash (and morons). You have received a flag.
Exactly.... sp owners will be loosers... even the whales like steemit inc will be loosers even though they hold many... as the price of steem will collapse after everyone went to MEOS...
Didnt expect such a strong stance from you. 😁
Im still trying to form an opinion. Some people close to me hate this but i think that those people that are proposing this like Kevin will start curating more.
Maybe that helps make it better for everyone?
Im starting to do really well again on steem so i hope i wont lose it all with this change. ☺
Exactly. And if earlier Hard Forks are any indication, very hard to get such implementation reversed once it’s in place.
From what I've gathered, it seems the most likely long-term funding source for the SPS will be 10% of the total inflation. This would be "paid for" by reducing the amount of inflation that goes into the rewards pool from 75% to 65%.
With this change, the inflation would be:
Again, this gets into "my way" vs. "consensus" way. I'd prefer to see them split up too, but there are also some valid reasons to justify combining them.
could you explain the valid reasons for combining these changes, please?
I would prefer to separate out SPS and EIP, but that gets into what I said about the change not being 100% done the way I want it to be.
The main two reasons that I see are:
-We are trying to change the culture of behavior. This is more difficult than just tweaking math. When the changes are bundled together, then the package as a whole is more likely to cause users to think and act differently than if we did them one at a time.
Okay, thanks.
So effectively, we’d really be changing from 75/25 to 45/45 rather than 50/50, i.e., author rewards would be falling even more than most people realize?
That is a disaster for smaller accounts, as they can´t get out much of curation either!
Did nobody consider, that Steem´s future is dependent on the - now - small accounts?
The math works out a little bit differently, but basically yes. As I said in the post, a "more than 50% reduction".
You’re right.
Currently, 0.75x0.75 (authors) and 0.75x0.25 (curators) of inflation.
Post-HF21, 0.65x0.50 and 0.65x0.50
So author rewards would be going from the current 56.25% of inflation to 32.5% of inflation, and curation rewards would change from the current 18.75% of inflation to 32.5% of inflation.
That is closer :) It technically gets even more complicated because 100% of the curation does not go to curators (if votes are placed within the first 15 minutes). But it is the correct line of thought.
Change from 56.25% to 32.5% is only 42.22% reduction.
#sbi-skip
I'm not tech minded before I continue, and thanks for all this info in the post by the way, but has anyone ever thought about having not just one reward pool? Just something that popped to mind, could it be possible to somehow have multiple reward pools and so all the users are not all dependent on just one that can get drained too easy?
The reward pool never drains - its made of a special kind of magic called inflation. This inflation fills it everyday and then using another special power, this one called division, distributes it perfectly to all the sources. It literally can never be drained!
Oh yes! Of course! The 60k daily steem? I wonder though if somehow to have a graded system of different reward pools from the fresh tokens produced somehow separately allocated to accounts based on something like ...... ? I get lost at this point :)
Yes but we have to wait for SMTs to get that. Each coin will have its reward pool.