Community Discussion: Where would you like to go??

in #higherorderthinking7 years ago (edited)


Source
Good morning, Tigrilla. And hello again to anybody (anyone?...anyone?) who might be listening...

The road behind us:

https://steemit.com/steemstem/@rortian/to-steemstem-or-not-to-steemstem-who-defines-science

https://steemit.com/higherorderthinking/@yvesoler/want-to-be-a-part-of-a-community-discussion

https://steemit.com/higherorderthinking/@rortian/community-discussion-continued

https://steemit.com/higherorderthinking/@yvesoler/community-discussion-continued-a-feeling-of-failure

https://steemit.com/higherorderthinking/@rortian/community-discussion-in-progress

https://steemit.com/higherorderthinking/@yvesoler/community-discussion-in-progress-is-there-space-for-critical-thinking-without-judgement

https://steemit.com/higherorderthinking/@rortian/community-discussion-chapter-6

and

https://steemit.com/higherorderthinking/@yvesoler/community-discussion-in-progress-philosophy-of-judgement

OK, let's move to new cognitive spaces. On your mark; set...

Boom!

judgement

  1. the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions.
  2. a misfortune or calamity viewed as a divine punishment: judgement on them for their wickedness

discernment

  1. the ability to judge well.

You asked about my meaning when I said that I'm "judgment-free."

Do I want to operate without making considered decisions, coming to sensible conclusions, or judging things well?

Hmmm. Uh, I don’t think so!

What I’m talking about relates to the other one, but pronounced by humans:
...judgement on them for their wickedness

I added the italics!

I was referring to judgmentalism, the process (habit!) of being judgmental:

Oxford: 1.1 Having or displaying an overly critical point of view

Cambridge: too quick to criticize people

Merriam-Webster: 2. characterized by a tendency to judge harshly

Is that process unfamiliar to people?

I was put down so many times as a child that I adopted it as a way of life - being judged (in the worst sense of the word!) and judging people in return.

I eventually woke up, smelled the shit, and decided to give up the habit.

(I'm not perfect! Every so often I've gotten upset, dropped my filters, and failed to maintain my commitment; then I've been ashamed and contrite. Nobody's perfect...)

I'm working on a blog entry about the process of invalidating people by applying abusive labels and characterizations.

Btw, imo, Most of the people whom I meet don't bother to evaluate what they say, because they already know that what they say is true! As I've explained, I'm working with a different set of presumptions.

“How does one create a space where every person is potentially both student and teacher? That is my question.”

Great question, Tigrilla!

How have you been doing it?

I’d very much like to hear how someone who’s never done that before arrived at the frame of mind that you’ve created in the past days. Maybe if you share your process, others will be interested.

It can’t have been very easy for you…was it?

I believe that it took tremendous courage for you to overcome your historical issues, bad thoughts, and habits of avoidance and step forward to work with me. I understand that you did it because you believed that it would be good for you, or you wouldn’t be here.

Continuing day after day, without making leaps and bounds in your learning process, can’t have been easy either. I have great admiration for the work that you’ve done so far on this, Tigrilla.

Please allow me to rephrase your inquiry into a more general question.

How do people learn to create new cognitive spaces for themselves and others?

My best idea on this (not the truth!) is abstract (like all ideas): We step out of the history that binds us to our beliefs, open our minds, look around, inquire, and then listen to people who have lived for a while with the things that we’re seeing for the first time.

Does that make much sense to you?

As for what we actually do:

We talk about things that we haven’t talked about before. We inquire. This requires being open-minded and creating a commitment to learning.

Most children are used to that. I believe that many adults dropped out of that process as soon as they believed that could manage well enough by believing what they know. They don't seem to me to appreciate the value of self-correction very much (if at all!). I think that they need to know that they've been right about...everything(?).

They might change their minds if confronted with clear evidence that they're mistaken. Many won't:

Confirmation bias

and https://www.fs.blog/2017/05/confirmation-bias/

“ If anybody is out there, and you have a good idea, would you please be kind enough to share it with us?”

Lol. That’s a good idea to you, Tigrilla, and I agree that that would be nice. On the other hand, do you think that this banner is evidencing something like anxiety (or desperation?) on your part?

I still think that you don’t understand the magnitude of your courage!

We discussed your fears. You overcame them.

Everything that follows is my opinion, ok? Check it out, Folks. Tell me how wrong I am, if you dare. Or if you agree, could you admit it?

When one's desire to learn outweighs one's desire to avoid being wrong then one works to learn new things and/or replace outdated ideas.

I call that a commitment to learning: https://steemit.com/education/@rortian/applying-values-in-action-theory-and-practice

Folks are comfortable with their beliefs. They believe that their beliefs are true. They’ve invested their lives in these beliefs.

Our beliefs drive our actions. If our beliefs are mistaken, it follows that any actions sourced in those beliefs might be mistaken. Not only might people’s past beliefs and actions be mistaken, but they would be wrong.

Who’s willing to risk that?

@dedicatedguy asked me this: When it comes to science knowledge, I believe the social and historical context are irrelevant, but perhaps I am mistaken about this?

I replied with an excerpt from my ebook which describes what happened when a seventy-year-old engineer asked me how the properties of metals could be viewed as other than fixed fixed and objective.

I explained in his terms, and that guy got it.

Check it out, Folks (if you dare!): https://steemit.com/higherorderthinking/@rortian/dealing-with-facticity-my-apology-and-re-introduction#@dedicatedguy/re-rortian-dealing-with-facticity-my-apology-and-re-introduction-20180410t125258922z

Thanks, @dedicatedguy, for inquiring.

Tigrilla, you haven’t delved into philosophical questions with me yet either, have you? You’ve had other concerns that stood in the way; you’ve been working through your historical reservations, considerations, beliefs, and needs.

That's perfect. It's a prerequiste. You get philosophy (and psychology) back!

This is an unfamiliar process to you and others. You’ve faced your fears and overcome them.

That takes tremendous courage, Tigrilla. Thank you for being here with me. I admire your commitment to learning.

“What is the next lesson?”

Well, I opened this process, but it’s called learner-centered education! You’re actually driving me to where you want to go. I'm just navigating the path; I've got the map.

So, ask a question, and that will open up the next space of inquiry, consideration and resolution.

Ok?

Sort:  

And I'm back! Hmmm... I am wondering if we took a step back with this one or if instead we completed one cycle and are now moving into a deeper one? At first, the next wrung could feel like you are actually going back over explored terrain, but at some point it clicks that this is really similar, yet on a deeper level. Which will it be? To find out, read here.

Note: From until the end of the month, my schedule goes from flexible to swamped. Responses may be eeexxxttrrreeemmmmllyyy slow. Don't fret, it is just a momentary blimp. Maybe this will encourage others to step in and fill the silence?!

"I am wondering if ...we completed one cycle and are now moving into a deeper one"

I have if you have, TG!

"goes from flexible to swamped. Responses may be eeexxxttrrreeemmmmllyyy slow. Don't fret"

k. no prob.

"maybe this will encourage others to step in"

lol I get that you're hopeful.

I also get that you're concerned (italics signify euphemism...)

Please give up thinking about that. First of all, we're setting the example. Second of all, we intend to progress and we can do that. Third I'm working behind the scenes with several followers who are either going to blow me off or else eventually step forward.

There's more but f it. Please. I'm hardly interested in hopes and dreams about things that I can't manage.

We're better off focusing on ourselves and our friends (imo!)

Thanks for being here!

I am encouraging yet detached about the participation of others. Community building is based on shared goals, and in my experience, some goals are much easier to gather support for than others. You usually start a little more on the surface, then slowly move deeper. It is a process.

I connected with Gina today. She's looking at my book proposal...she sends her blessings, and I so do I.

Super happy to hear you connected! I have been immersed in a Damanhurian and Finnish environment until yesterday. Today is catch-up day and then a series of meetings because I am above the water line and can contribute to Steemit discussions again. Thanks for the patience. Did I miss anything of note?

Did I miss anything of note?

I don't think so...

Just talked with Gina again.

She seems interested in supporting the project, we're figuring out how to make things happen.

Thanks again for for your encouragement, Tigrilla.

Tigrilla, fyi:

I don't care who listens or participates in our conversation.

If people get it, good for them. If they don't read it or don't like what they read, that doesn't affect me.

I'm caring about you, and whether you've been learning, and what you've been learning and what you want to learn, and whether you want to work with me.

My latest post was a comment on feeling fear and understanding our fears. My hope is that you'll understand that people fear fear, and that most of us don't understand how it works and how deeply it affects us.

I wrote it for you.

My hope is that you'll find it useful.

Education Caring Support Opportunity Love

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