I like your ideas and I have a small proposition: let's reduce the SPI dividends.
We have a long time investment and many non clear things in a near future, so let's distribute only a few now and, when we know what will happen in a near or not so near future, we will decide what to do.
!trdo
I think the dividends are bang on, i actually suggested 1% per month. It'll take us at least 1 year to issue another 100k token so lots and lots to sort things like this out.
Thanks for the feedback, good to know you'd be happier with a small dividend payment and more token value growth. Cheers bro
Hey @ronaldoavelino, reducing the SPI dividends makes sense for now. The current levels where fine for when LEO was in the 0.16 - 0.2 range, but currently in a 0.06 - 0.09 range they are very high. I won't change this week, but dropping the payout makes sense for the mid-term.
The other point is that the high returns are only available because of strategic, aggressive auto-curation setting for the account. Whether the process I use is in the long term best interest's of the asset is debatable. Many people are doing similar (in some tribes more than others) but does that make it right?
We should set up some curation trails that will allow the account(s) to vote on top of each other. What I mean by this is to upvote something but have it represent 7-10 tokens.
This should be doable with SMTs....find some projects that are believed in and stack the tokens. Then an upvote will get curation from a number of projects. I believe that is how SMTs are being set up.
I tried a curation trial a long time ago and it was a complete failure. I still like the idea but think a half-decent powered up are staked balances are required to launch curation trails properly.
Any thoughts are club growth, things we can do? I'd like your input :)
I think SMT's will present a whole new range of opportunities and options for us. Setting up a curation trail to provide votes worth 7-10 tokens is an interesting idea, but requires investors to actively post still. Part of the benefit of SPI is that people can invest and gain the benefits of SP without having to post or blog. Content creation is not a natural process for many, and would we be seen as "reward pool abusing" if we upvote a poor quality post with a 7-10 STEEM upvote, just to give an investor ROI?
Damn mate, i have just replied back to the comments and now i dont feel like writing anymore, lmao
Great post and alot of good points brought up.
I agree that 200,000 tokens and the rest in dividends at roughly 9-10% per year is a good ballpark example.
Something like 10% has always been the plan but only after tokens are not being sold any more. Ive spoke about it once are maybe twice as it's a touchy subject. My plan has always been to run and build a team until we stopped selling tokens and then the team that built it start to get rewarded and funny enough, the figure in my head has always been 10%.
I personally like more off chain investment. Fuck knows what gonna happen with STEEM over the next 6 months. I think off chain we have around 2500 STEEM worth of investment which is about 3% of the total fund, not that much and not much of a cushion as a hedge for the fund at 3%. That being said, we will be buying 2500 STEEM's worth of BTC next week which will push that number to 5-6%.
As for stopping the delegation service, i feel your pain mate and for me, the earnings and holding posts are chores. It would be easy to convert the account into a Leo tribe upvoting service based on a delegation to upvote model. Steemleo frontend users delegate Leo tokens and you'd provide a daily upvote for them. It can be set up 80% automated, mostly just adding and removing users as they delegate are undelegate. I run a STEEM upvoting service based on the same model and it requires about 3-10 minutes per day to maintain and put out a daily post. It produces around 100 STEEM for me every week for what feels like no work. Alot of work in the beginning but you already have delegators in place. Most importantly, no more have to sell any Leo tokens, send out SPI tokens to delegators manually every week and having to produce weekly income reports which i think are the main things you'd like you cut out. I can teach you how and you'll collect a fortune in curation :)
SMT's will be interesting to see, i hope they are used and become popular. I do not know everything about STO's but SPI tokens are already ownership tokens. The idea of buying Tesla are google stock crypto is an amazing idea.
NFT's will require some work, there is not a lot of information out there on them. I have A SPinvest NTF already set up, just not done anything to it yet. I wonna learn more about them before i start to play
Again, great post man. If there were 10 more like it, i'd be on top of the world.
Wanted to give you plenty to think about mate - I like to occasionally think out loud and fire of some random ideas. The LEO upvote bot would be easier than what I'm doing now, but would not suit the passive investor set-up we have going here. I think that people like the current delegation model, as they don't have to produce some shit-posts to get ROI. (not saying any of our memmbers posts are shit, just that is what I see a vote bot encouraging)
We are ahead of the game with STO's, but watch out for them as they will be big I believe.
@silverstackeruk and @jk6276, I like the original vision of 1 million tokens. Steem has a tiny user base but that will change and when it does, it will change exponentially. I believe token sales will increase exponentially along with that, so I am wary of capping the fund. I feel we have only just got started, and there are many big ideas to come. It also concerns me that somthing like 70% of tokens are held within a dozen or so accounts: we need better distribution than that.
Having said that, I'd like to see much more off-chain investments, and a focus on building a portfolio outside Steem.
I think it would be much more interesting, engaging and in the interests of the SPI fund to have more member activity, including building investment awareness. Hearing people talk about what they invest in and why, the considerations for them and how they manage risk would enable people who feel they don't know much, or feel a little anxious about investing to take part and feel more confident about what they are doing. A monthly club meeting with a guest speaker with a nice clickbait title "why I wouldn't touch [property] with a barge-pole" (in fact, replace property with another word each month :D), would bring members together, build relationships and knowledge. Or a discussion about reserves (call it a buy-back wall, if you will) - are they important, pros and cons, how big should they be or some other topic relevant to understanding SPI and how investing works.
Fully understand about the grind of taking on a role like managing the spinvest-leo account, I've done similar things many times, which is why I'm not taking it on now as I'm approaching the end of my working life. I did consider whether I would do it if there was some recompense, as you are proposing. The answer was still "no"! I try to be a critical friend - ask questions, offer support, suggest ideas. That's what I can do for SPInvest.
I wonder whether there is any possibility of automating some of the more routine tedious bits of running an account - maybe consider the possibility of paying in steem/tokens for someone to do the development needed for automation or, if this is a problem that may affect many other tokens, asking whether there could be an automated system built into Steem-Engine. Should have written a post!
I would still like 1 million in circulation, capping at say 250,000 and issuing the rest through dividends is no short term fix. Yes a handful of token holders hold must of the tokens, i would rather this was not the case as well and why I've been pushing sales so hard and trying to introduce things like beneficiaries.
Im 100% with you on building outside of STEEM, 110% in fact
Im not posting for SPinvest this week but im still writing posts and a lot of your concerns are ones we share as i have already wrote about them in these un uploaded posts. New token distribution plan needed, club mod's, automation will be tested out, SPinvest communities, beneficiary incentives, club interaction and more.
And yes, you should have wrote a post. Copy/paste this comment into a post and get this shared :)
Okay 😊 I think, given the age of spinvest and the external environment, SPI is going really well. Good to have this moment of reflection and review. Look forward to your posts when you're ready.
AS for selling LEO ech week and hurting the price of Leo, may you should pay out in LEO and let the delegators decide what to do with the LEO some will sell but I am sure some will not
In theory, it's a good idea but i think the reality would be under 10% would convert the paid out Leo tokens into SPI tokens. Personally i would not be bothered with the effort, mining is passive income where you set it up and forget it. Your comment has given me an idea.
If JK has a target amount of Leo he would like the account to hold, say 10,000-20,000 Leo's, spinvest can provide the SPI tokens without spinvest-leo having to sell Leo tokens until that target amount is hit. The Leo tokens would in effect just become SPinvest's holdings. This would only fix the problem short term but the price may bounce back before that time. And, just an idea to float
I like this idea @silverstackeruk - in effect we would be issuing SPI in return for LEO instead of STEEM. Takes the pressure off selling but is it in keeping with the "fully STEEM backed" principles of the SPI token?
As for a target for LEO - 1,000,000,000,000,000 - hehe.
Seriously, no reason why we can't aim to be the biggest hodler of LEO. Right now that is DTrade will around 150K
Not a bad idea - it would take the pressure of selling LEO to buy SPI each week. People could choose from there. It would also reduce the impact of fluctuations in LEO price, as people could choose their own timing to sell if that is their plan rather than me having to arbitrarily sell 600 - 1000 per week.
Payout could be fixed at say 50% of income, and payed as a percentage of the total delegation.
Thanks for the input, something to consider for sure.
Thanks for the post jk6276, I like the idea of moving @spinvest to dividends, for SPI holders, weekly or monthly. One of the selling points of @spinvest-leo is the weekly dividend. I have another SPUD day coming soon and as always part will go to Leo and be delegated to spinvest-leo because of the weekly div.
That being said moving @spinvest to dividends and @spinvest-leo away from dividends seems to be going in two different directions... @silverstakeruk talked about maybe a community upvote, maybe this would supplement or reduce dividends....
Just thinking, and as always you are very much appreciated!😀
Hey, the community upvote was an example. I personally do not think that an upvoting service is best suited for SPinvest on STEEM. That being said, i think it would make sense to convert spinvest-leo into a Leo tribe upvoting service. There are already delegators in place, some would stay, some would undelegate. ( @jk6276, this can be 80% automated very easily. ) Delegators would get daily upvotes and spinvest-leo would earn curation. No selling any Leo tokens and providing a service for the tribe.
A dividend payment from SPinvest would be Proof of Holding payouts meaning no staking required, just have SPI tokens in your wallet. Were still talking a long time down the road but converting spinvest-leo into a Leo tribe upvoting service could be something to look into.
Weekly dividends are awesome, and not going away any time soon for LEO delegators. Long term, I think that is the direction the overall Spinvest should go.
That said, running the delegation program is time consuming - and I have no skills to automate any of it.
As to moving spinvest to dividends and spinvest-leo away, this would only be the case if I ended the delegation program at some point in the future. A portion of the leo account earnings would be sent to spinvest and go in to the dividend pot - under this proposal. So dividends would still come, just all via spinvest. That is only if I end the delegation reward program.
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capping token sales at 20k and distributing remainder would be really good however 9% doesn't really look appealing almost everything in crypto land yields more.
-admin/organisers should defo get rewarded as you guys put in hard work
/time/commitment
-investments should be focused more on chain as you are alienating numbers of potential investors.
Once you take off chain it's out of investors control(not that we have any here) but phycologically makes us feel more comfortable.
I am glad there is some recognition that we may be hurting leo and neo in particular. That has changed from completely dismissing the fact to maybe. Next stage is definitely but will let you guys realise that yourselves.
-maybe paying people in leo and neo divs would counter that somewhat but I highly doubt it.
Majority of new holders have come from the lotto as I encourage them to hodl. A hand few have bought additional tokens but thats on par with sellers so no biggy.
Other major new holders are from neo dele.
How do we attract more investors?
Thats the trickiest question and there are no quick answers unfortunately.
But I am sure if we bang our heads hard enough something will pop up.
Additionally @silverstackeruk deserves a break and hope he recharges and comes back stronger.
Keep up the good work guys 👍
The 9% would be the income, profits above this would add to the asset base so the token would offer 9% income plus long term capital gain (steadily increasing SPI price) in theory becoming the rare combo of an income and growth asset.
I don't think we are the cause of the token price drop, but by consistently selling, we definitey are not helping.
Thanks for the input, it's great to see some ideas being kicked around and lots of people having an input.
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I like your ideas and I have a small proposition: let's reduce the SPI dividends.
We have a long time investment and many non clear things in a near future, so let's distribute only a few now and, when we know what will happen in a near or not so near future, we will decide what to do.
!trdo
Posted via Steemleo
I think the dividends are bang on, i actually suggested 1% per month. It'll take us at least 1 year to issue another 100k token so lots and lots to sort things like this out.
Thanks for the feedback, good to know you'd be happier with a small dividend payment and more token value growth. Cheers bro
Posted via Steemleo
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Hey @ronaldoavelino, reducing the SPI dividends makes sense for now. The current levels where fine for when LEO was in the 0.16 - 0.2 range, but currently in a 0.06 - 0.09 range they are very high. I won't change this week, but dropping the payout makes sense for the mid-term.
The other point is that the high returns are only available because of strategic, aggressive auto-curation setting for the account. Whether the process I use is in the long term best interest's of the asset is debatable. Many people are doing similar (in some tribes more than others) but does that make it right?
As always thanks for your input.
JK.
We should set up some curation trails that will allow the account(s) to vote on top of each other. What I mean by this is to upvote something but have it represent 7-10 tokens.
This should be doable with SMTs....find some projects that are believed in and stack the tokens. Then an upvote will get curation from a number of projects. I believe that is how SMTs are being set up.
Posted via Steemleo
I tried a curation trial a long time ago and it was a complete failure. I still like the idea but think a half-decent powered up are staked balances are required to launch curation trails properly.
Any thoughts are club growth, things we can do? I'd like your input :)
Posted via Steemleo
I think SMT's will present a whole new range of opportunities and options for us. Setting up a curation trail to provide votes worth 7-10 tokens is an interesting idea, but requires investors to actively post still. Part of the benefit of SPI is that people can invest and gain the benefits of SP without having to post or blog. Content creation is not a natural process for many, and would we be seen as "reward pool abusing" if we upvote a poor quality post with a 7-10 STEEM upvote, just to give an investor ROI?
Thanks for the input, plenty to think about.
JK.
Damn mate, i have just replied back to the comments and now i dont feel like writing anymore, lmao
Great post and alot of good points brought up.
I agree that 200,000 tokens and the rest in dividends at roughly 9-10% per year is a good ballpark example.
Something like 10% has always been the plan but only after tokens are not being sold any more. Ive spoke about it once are maybe twice as it's a touchy subject. My plan has always been to run and build a team until we stopped selling tokens and then the team that built it start to get rewarded and funny enough, the figure in my head has always been 10%.
I personally like more off chain investment. Fuck knows what gonna happen with STEEM over the next 6 months. I think off chain we have around 2500 STEEM worth of investment which is about 3% of the total fund, not that much and not much of a cushion as a hedge for the fund at 3%. That being said, we will be buying 2500 STEEM's worth of BTC next week which will push that number to 5-6%.
As for stopping the delegation service, i feel your pain mate and for me, the earnings and holding posts are chores. It would be easy to convert the account into a Leo tribe upvoting service based on a delegation to upvote model. Steemleo frontend users delegate Leo tokens and you'd provide a daily upvote for them. It can be set up 80% automated, mostly just adding and removing users as they delegate are undelegate. I run a STEEM upvoting service based on the same model and it requires about 3-10 minutes per day to maintain and put out a daily post. It produces around 100 STEEM for me every week for what feels like no work. Alot of work in the beginning but you already have delegators in place. Most importantly, no more have to sell any Leo tokens, send out SPI tokens to delegators manually every week and having to produce weekly income reports which i think are the main things you'd like you cut out. I can teach you how and you'll collect a fortune in curation :)
SMT's will be interesting to see, i hope they are used and become popular. I do not know everything about STO's but SPI tokens are already ownership tokens. The idea of buying Tesla are google stock crypto is an amazing idea.
NFT's will require some work, there is not a lot of information out there on them. I have A SPinvest NTF already set up, just not done anything to it yet. I wonna learn more about them before i start to play
Again, great post man. If there were 10 more like it, i'd be on top of the world.
Posted via Steemleo
Wanted to give you plenty to think about mate - I like to occasionally think out loud and fire of some random ideas. The LEO upvote bot would be easier than what I'm doing now, but would not suit the passive investor set-up we have going here. I think that people like the current delegation model, as they don't have to produce some shit-posts to get ROI. (not saying any of our memmbers posts are shit, just that is what I see a vote bot encouraging)
We are ahead of the game with STO's, but watch out for them as they will be big I believe.
Talk soon mate.
@silverstackeruk and @jk6276, I like the original vision of 1 million tokens. Steem has a tiny user base but that will change and when it does, it will change exponentially. I believe token sales will increase exponentially along with that, so I am wary of capping the fund. I feel we have only just got started, and there are many big ideas to come. It also concerns me that somthing like 70% of tokens are held within a dozen or so accounts: we need better distribution than that.
Having said that, I'd like to see much more off-chain investments, and a focus on building a portfolio outside Steem.
I think it would be much more interesting, engaging and in the interests of the SPI fund to have more member activity, including building investment awareness. Hearing people talk about what they invest in and why, the considerations for them and how they manage risk would enable people who feel they don't know much, or feel a little anxious about investing to take part and feel more confident about what they are doing. A monthly club meeting with a guest speaker with a nice clickbait title "why I wouldn't touch [property] with a barge-pole" (in fact, replace property with another word each month :D), would bring members together, build relationships and knowledge. Or a discussion about reserves (call it a buy-back wall, if you will) - are they important, pros and cons, how big should they be or some other topic relevant to understanding SPI and how investing works.
Fully understand about the grind of taking on a role like managing the spinvest-leo account, I've done similar things many times, which is why I'm not taking it on now as I'm approaching the end of my working life. I did consider whether I would do it if there was some recompense, as you are proposing. The answer was still "no"! I try to be a critical friend - ask questions, offer support, suggest ideas. That's what I can do for SPInvest.
I wonder whether there is any possibility of automating some of the more routine tedious bits of running an account - maybe consider the possibility of paying in steem/tokens for someone to do the development needed for automation or, if this is a problem that may affect many other tokens, asking whether there could be an automated system built into Steem-Engine. Should have written a post!
I would still like 1 million in circulation, capping at say 250,000 and issuing the rest through dividends is no short term fix. Yes a handful of token holders hold must of the tokens, i would rather this was not the case as well and why I've been pushing sales so hard and trying to introduce things like beneficiaries.
Im 100% with you on building outside of STEEM, 110% in fact
Im not posting for SPinvest this week but im still writing posts and a lot of your concerns are ones we share as i have already wrote about them in these un uploaded posts. New token distribution plan needed, club mod's, automation will be tested out, SPinvest communities, beneficiary incentives, club interaction and more.
And yes, you should have wrote a post. Copy/paste this comment into a post and get this shared :)
Okay 😊 I think, given the age of spinvest and the external environment, SPI is going really well. Good to have this moment of reflection and review. Look forward to your posts when you're ready.
AS for selling LEO ech week and hurting the price of Leo, may you should pay out in LEO and let the delegators decide what to do with the LEO some will sell but I am sure some will not
In theory, it's a good idea but i think the reality would be under 10% would convert the paid out Leo tokens into SPI tokens. Personally i would not be bothered with the effort, mining is passive income where you set it up and forget it. Your comment has given me an idea.
If JK has a target amount of Leo he would like the account to hold, say 10,000-20,000 Leo's, spinvest can provide the SPI tokens without spinvest-leo having to sell Leo tokens until that target amount is hit. The Leo tokens would in effect just become SPinvest's holdings. This would only fix the problem short term but the price may bounce back before that time. And, just an idea to float
Posted via Steemleo
I like this idea @silverstackeruk - in effect we would be issuing SPI in return for LEO instead of STEEM. Takes the pressure off selling but is it in keeping with the "fully STEEM backed" principles of the SPI token?
As for a target for LEO - 1,000,000,000,000,000 - hehe.
Seriously, no reason why we can't aim to be the biggest hodler of LEO. Right now that is DTrade will around 150K
Not a bad idea - it would take the pressure of selling LEO to buy SPI each week. People could choose from there. It would also reduce the impact of fluctuations in LEO price, as people could choose their own timing to sell if that is their plan rather than me having to arbitrarily sell 600 - 1000 per week.
Payout could be fixed at say 50% of income, and payed as a percentage of the total delegation.
Thanks for the input, something to consider for sure.
JK
Thanks for the post jk6276, I like the idea of moving @spinvest to dividends, for SPI holders, weekly or monthly. One of the selling points of @spinvest-leo is the weekly dividend. I have another SPUD day coming soon and as always part will go to Leo and be delegated to spinvest-leo because of the weekly div.
That being said moving @spinvest to dividends and @spinvest-leo away from dividends seems to be going in two different directions...
@silverstakeruk talked about maybe a community upvote, maybe this would supplement or reduce dividends....
Just thinking, and as always you are very much appreciated!😀
Hey, the community upvote was an example. I personally do not think that an upvoting service is best suited for SPinvest on STEEM. That being said, i think it would make sense to convert spinvest-leo into a Leo tribe upvoting service. There are already delegators in place, some would stay, some would undelegate. ( @jk6276, this can be 80% automated very easily. ) Delegators would get daily upvotes and spinvest-leo would earn curation. No selling any Leo tokens and providing a service for the tribe.
A dividend payment from SPinvest would be Proof of Holding payouts meaning no staking required, just have SPI tokens in your wallet. Were still talking a long time down the road but converting spinvest-leo into a Leo tribe upvoting service could be something to look into.
Posted via Steemleo
Weekly dividends are awesome, and not going away any time soon for LEO delegators. Long term, I think that is the direction the overall Spinvest should go.
That said, running the delegation program is time consuming - and I have no skills to automate any of it.
As to moving spinvest to dividends and spinvest-leo away, this would only be the case if I ended the delegation program at some point in the future. A portion of the leo account earnings would be sent to spinvest and go in to the dividend pot - under this proposal. So dividends would still come, just all via spinvest. That is only if I end the delegation reward program.
Thanks for the input and support.
JK.
Congratulations! Your post has been selected as a daily Steemit truffle! It is listed on rank 16 of all contributions awarded today. You can find the TOP DAILY TRUFFLE PICKS HERE.
I upvoted your contribution because to my mind your post is at least 3 SBD worth and should receive 146 votes. It's now up to the lovely Steemit community to make this come true.
I am
TrufflePig, an Artificial Intelligence Bot that helps minnows and content curators using Machine Learning. If you are curious how I select content, you can find an explanation here!Have a nice day and sincerely yours,
TrufflePigExcellent points.
-admin/organisers should defo get rewarded as you guys put in hard work
/time/commitment
-investments should be focused more on chain as you are alienating numbers of potential investors.
Once you take off chain it's out of investors control(not that we have any here) but phycologically makes us feel more comfortable.
I am glad there is some recognition that we may be hurting leo and neo in particular. That has changed from completely dismissing the fact to maybe. Next stage is definitely but will let you guys realise that yourselves.
-maybe paying people in leo and neo divs would counter that somewhat but I highly doubt it.
Majority of new holders have come from the lotto as I encourage them to hodl. A hand few have bought additional tokens but thats on par with sellers so no biggy.
Other major new holders are from neo dele.
How do we attract more investors?
Thats the trickiest question and there are no quick answers unfortunately.
But I am sure if we bang our heads hard enough something will pop up.
Additionally @silverstackeruk deserves a break and hope he recharges and comes back stronger.
Keep up the good work guys 👍
Posted using Partiko Android
The 9% would be the income, profits above this would add to the asset base so the token would offer 9% income plus long term capital gain (steadily increasing SPI price) in theory becoming the rare combo of an income and growth asset.
I don't think we are the cause of the token price drop, but by consistently selling, we definitey are not helping.
Thanks for the input, it's great to see some ideas being kicked around and lots of people having an input.
Interesting - I am really not happy about on-chain investments, I'd prefer to see more going outside and a bigger degree of diversification.
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