The day that became a nightmare due to the use of AI to comment on posts to the users in steem
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Test of posts with AI worked.
And promoting my witness @xpilar.witness I did not see as anything wrong to do.
But what should have been done in addition was to give posts that AI commented an upvote to author.
Everything seemed fine with the AI, but it learns itself from the posts it comments on. And it also provided commentary in different languages.
This became an expensive lesson about using AI because eventually the comments looked like pure spam, but not all the comments. And many also thanked for the comment.
But unfortunately I discovered too late what was developing with the comments from AI which were perceived as Spam. I was out with the family and when I got home I saw the message from @steemchiller.
The bot (AI) was stopped,but there were already many comments sent out to authors via my account @xpilar.witness.
@steemchiller did a strong down vote on the comments + some others and my reputation went to minus -04 and that's the same as you being blacklisted.
@steemchiller and I entered into an agreement that if I deleted the comments he would withdraw his downvotes.
Comments who got replies cant be deleted but the bot is now deleting any comment that were not replied.
Sometimes things go wrong, that is, it didn't turn out the way we thought and we humans have different ways of reacting. And that's just the way it is, I can't do anything about how others react.
But I hope that those who appreciate me here on steem will still vote for my witness @xpilar.witness
I also want to thank @stef1 for her post on this matter
"Downvote War: are we back to Old Witnesses behavior?"
You can read it here
INFO
BottoSteem
Robust Automations on STEEM Blockchain using the Power of AI.
Developed by our own team
Harnessing the Power of BotSteem:
Guide to Automated Voting, Rewards, and Delegations Securly with Botto
xpilar.witness
Voting for me:
https://steemit.com/~witnesses type in xpilar.witness and click VOTE
Founder of @wox-helpfund
If you want to know more about @wox-helpfund click here
While the Steemit team greatly admires the very significant contribution Xpilar has made to the platform we are rather surprised, confused and frankly disappointed by this latest action.
We have gone to great lengths to discourage the use of AI, including requiring curators and moderators to check for and not support any AI generated content, be it posts or comments.
Indeed one of the main reasons for the recent major change of the Engagement Challenge was to tackle the growing use of AI comments.
Therefore to see a respected Top 20 witness actively promoting the use of AI to generate large amounts of spam comments deeply saddens us as it greatly undermines our efforts to curb the use of AI on the platform.
While the intention of encouraging engagement may have merit, we do not consider the use of AI to achieve this as a wise path to take on a Proof of Brain blockchain.
We were also very concerned at how long it took to halt the flow of the AI spam comments.
One of the golden rules of software development was obviously not followed - when deploying a new system... Observe closely, react quickly.
As to the reactions of other witnesses and the rest of the community, that is not for us to comment.
I would like to discuss the purpose of AI-generated comments objectively. I've missed out on that so far. Or have I missed a discussion about it?
I always thought Steem was supposed to be a platform for users to share their thoughts across all boundaries. We have come to terms with bots as we also want to offer investors a deal and some (like my @du-finanzbot) are really useful too.
But I seriously wonder what is the added value of an unsolicited comment written by a bot and an AI?
I've already read about a post summary here. Does that mean that we (i.e. the people on the Steem) no longer need to read the post at all, but only the AI comment? Is that what we want?
If I want a summary for my post, I throw the text into the AI myself.
I can now truly claim to be tech-savvy. I also like to try out new ideas. And from a technical point of view, I find it totally exciting.
But the question we should be asking ourselves on and for this platform is: do we need it?
Do we have to realise everything that is possible?
Hi Moecki, just writing because I am just now online, there are a lot that needs to be discussed and I agree I am also not in a favour of how the bot was used, absolutely no questions. I am just furious about the overkill of a known Witness user for that error using two own account by Chiller and one that he is as he admitted helping to Pakistani user, does it need to be done? Or was it anything that we users missed or maybe was there something in Witness channel where Xpilar is excluded from? Sorry, nothing personally but it seems only you are one of the other witnesses who are engaged in the discussion. My fully respect to you and appreciation.
This is obviously for the witnesses to determine but it seems unwise for any witness, particularly a Top 20 witness, to be excluded from the Witness Channel.
Presumably if Xpilar had been in the Witness Channel then this whole issue could have been resolved more quickly and more amicably.
I wonder if any witness has access to the Witness Discord or only top 20? Is the Steemit Team as @dev365 who has a huge influence when give a Vote Preference for Witnesses has also an access to Witness Discord?
I believe for users on Steemitit is of interest to know what is been discussed there and what kind of decisions the Witnesses make. You are right in your thought that if Xpilar had access to Witness canal then everything would be clarified much earlier.
By the way, does Steemit Team knew that Xpilar was excluded from Witness Discord? Would be grateful for your feedback.
The bot stopped running, you know yourself it is not possible to remove all comments. There are no new comments are posted from Witness account.
Actually you can leave your downvotes as they are that is fine. At least now everyone know what is the problem and everyone is clarified. Damage happened and now we just need to start from beginning, I say we, I mean WOX and Xpilar, I do not ask you to do anything.
Have a nice day,
No no, I was talking about the bot that now removes the comments, as I was told. Many comments are still there that can be removed. If one really wants to correct the mistake, one could just edit the text to 'mistake' or so, but I don't expect that now for this agreement.
Update
I just received a response from xpilar and the comments that can be deleted will be deleted soon.
New Update
Have a nice day ;)
I like to keep my comments is that possible? The first one made me very happy 😁 and I don't want the 'error' instead it is the worst and ugliests thing on Steemit.
On the other hand @stef1
Let's be fair if it was me all my legs were broken by now if not my neck and next my family's, friends and those who once exchanged a word with me.
What I do wonder about is who at a decentralized platform reigns and decides about good or wrong. Does this mean @cheemchiller is the owner of Steemit Inc and Steemit is centralized unlike what is said? (not that I care but it would be good if we all know how or what).
I am baffled to hear how witnesses are excluded from taking part in round table discussions because I thought we build this together but I guess it's not different from real life not everyone is welcome to join a club.
It sounds to me that already no one talks about this, it was a one moment thing and I learned a lot.
I wonder what happens if everyone leaves, gives up on posting because adults can not handle a test which turned out not to be the worst thing that could have happened to Steemit. I believe that some Steemians finally feel heard and decided to stay on Steemit afer posting for years and being ignored.
🍀♥️
It is still considered to be no centre but I think Witnesses still have their powerful decision making. Actually when I think about that I recall how it is in EU when people try to block one country, like President Orban block the help for Ukraine, the same like in US the senate froze the Billion dollar help. So it is always a group of people and not one.I think if everyone leaves they Steem prize definitely will be in free fall and if people go then Witnesses will have no job, because we, users voted for them and brought them there where they are now.
Thank you very much, Stef1.
I don't know anything about why or when an exclusion happened, as I've only been in the channel for a few weeks.
I hope the discussion about the topic is just starting. The Steemit Team has already spoken up and we should all think about the direction we want to develop the Steem in.
How about spreading some friendliness, words many never heard before?
Well, I'm glad to see this explanation @xpilar.
I know you're one of the "good guys" on Steemit and do a lot for this community... and so, the AI comments just seemed so out of character that at first I even thought the witness account had been hacked.
But I'm also with @steemcurator01 in that this is a proof-of-brain blockchain... not a "proof of automation" blockchain. The whole "bot invasion" many years ago was not only a source of disappointment to many, but it also caused people to leave.
If we are trying to build a repository of human stories and events here; to be "the Internet of PEOPLE;" we need to really emphasize the human factor of the community.
That said, I also recognize the task of promoting a witness... but, in a sense, doing so via wallet memo messages almost makes more sense, given that people actually have to be logged into their wallets to vote for a witness.
None of this changes my opinion about the value of you, the WOX community or the WOX witness. Keep up the good work.
P.S.: Too bad Steemit doesn't have a "sandbox" area for experiments like this...
There is already a possibility for the blockchain. It could run its own testnet. It would be a lot of work to set up, but it could be used for various tests. There used to be an “official” testnet operated by Steemit. However, this is no longer available.
Thank you my dear friend for this post, it is often the case when while working on some projects we see that it is not right and start again.
I come across when doing my drawing or painting, you can not imagine how many drawing or painting paper I destroyed before some works where I was satisfied.
The same with @myskye when he is doing some DIY and we see on example of timber how much we have then just use for wood burner or when wallpaper is rubbish and glue is not holding. The next time we know that we will not do that.
I am bringing that just to show that we all learn every day on our experience and our daily decisions.
The idea was great and I immediately though about that when I saw the message with AI generated message. Like my friend @bambuka mentioned before, my thankful reply (and I did reply to Ai generated comment) was also directed to you, as we know that there is a person who is there and nowadays we do not have completely independent AI like in "Terminator" or in "I Robot" it was clear for us and it was also clear that it needs some fine tuning. The bot was not only commenting but also upvoting user's post. It is funny that users do not complain if they receive many upvotes from bots but receiving comments some users immediately got irritated.
I just can say that it is very childish reaction of some people and for me I am glad that some people showed up their real character, we know what to expect.
As I mentioned to you I respect whatever decision you do and I also repeat what I mentioned before if I were you I would closed down witness account and all the activities it seems that everything you did was not really appreciated and I would just concentrate on doing what you like and what is better to you, Steemit users and community will survive, you know it better than me from your life experience.
Our best wishes and our support @stef1 and @myskye
I've been busy lately, so I haven't been able to join the discussion until now. However, I observed the situation a bit.
As far as I understand, Steem doesn't have any kind of testing ground where you can try new development. Sometimes you have to test a new idea to realize that it was wrong. The risks are even greater when you do not do it yourself, but delegate the work to someone else. Then you cannot always control the results of the experiment in time.
What do we have in the dry residue? The experiment failed. Everyone, including @xpilar, agrees that the results were poor. The bot is disabled, comments are no longer generated.
Should we punish the witness for this by taking our votes away from him? 🤔
Voting for the witness is our right to choose the future blockchain. So, we must dispassionately assess whether this particular witness makes any positive contribution to the ecosystem. For me personally, @xpilar.witness is first of all a door to charity. It is easy to want to make a lot of money and withdraw it for your own benefit. It is much harder to use the part for those in need. @xpilar.witness resources help me and other fund members raise funds for @wox-helpfund. These funds are then used to do amazing things, giving people a glimmer of hope.
Blockchain can serve a variety of purposes. This is not only development and enrichment. The Steem blockchain is unique in its social component, it is unique in that we can help people at least a little. The charitable component is no less important than new developments. Steem is now always associated with charity.
@wox-helpfund is one of the largest charity funds on the Steem blockchain. I believe that the top 20 witnesses should have a witness who organized such a charitable activity. This is my personal opinion.
@xpilar, of course, supports other tools, such as curation trails, SP rental, the ability to create fan bases. But the most important thing for me is his charitable activity.
I hope that the situation will be resolved in a normal way. I will now delete some of my responses to the bot's comment so that his comments can also be deleted.
It was clear that this was the work of a bot, but I turned rather to its owner :)
In general, the experiment is interesting. The bot can make a "squeeze" from the text of the post and draw the attention of other visitors to some interesting moments, thoughts, ideas. This can enliven the comments.
====================
Надеюсь, что ситуация разрешится нормальным образом. Я сейчас удалю несколько своих ответов на комментарий бота, чтобы его комментарии можно было тоже удалить.
Было понятно, что это работа бота, но я обращался скорее к его хозяину :)
Вообще, эксперимент интересный. Бот может сделать "выжимку" из текста поста и обратить внимание других посетителей на какие-то интересные моменты, мысли, идеи. Это может оживить комментарии.
Dear @xpilar
I like to say a word if it comes to the bot-comment.
The first one I saw made me smile and I am not the only one.
As a present member of Team 2 - SC04 - I decided to have a look about how many answered the bot's comment.
How many of these comments were sent?
I can't tell but I know that the average response on the bot-comment was positive. People answered back and took the time to explain further so I believe this is positive and a clear sign engagement is important!
I even thought how great it would be if a bot could send a message to all for the holidays or the start of a new year. For sure it would make this platform a better place.
If it comes to the comments:
Only a few had doubts if this was a hack or a message sent by a bot and even then they joked about it. I only read 2 "angry" comments where one said that he had it will all the spam in his account and would not vote for you as a witness.
"All the spam..." it means this message isn't the first or the only one. We all know what the average comment section looks like - if it comes to that fact I tend to withdraw witnesses who dump their message underneath my posts. This is the spam we all deal with in combination with the lack of a friendly word.
The annoying part for me was the link. Without it would have felt better also more honest because it now felt like: I give you a comment and now you upvote me next to the possibility of being hacked again and losing my account.
Yesterday Team 2 decided to give an upvote to those who took the time to answer. It was just a pity the bot did not answer the replies. Today we continued this journey but all the votes we gave were reduced/taken away. I find it sad to experience how easily many can be downvoted. Not because of a mistake but because of rules set by? leaving no room to try something new or put a smile on faces.
I wish you all the best. For sure you find a way. All the best.
🍀♥️
Мне нравится ваш энтузиазм! К сожалению, в событии был и негатив: не поддерживаемое использование ИИ, спам-рассылка, медленное реагирование. Но стороны договариваются, комментарии свидетеля получившие ответы не будут удалены, и надеюсь мы еще увидим позитивную креативность Xpilar в действии.
Давайте сделаем позитивный сайт, дружеский жест без ощущения спама и мошенничества. Я уверен, что все мы согласны с тем, что никто не готов ежедневно писать 20 длинных, увлекательных комментариев незнакомым людям. Сегодня я написал 12 длинных комментариев в одном сообществе, и на это у меня уходит не менее 3 часов, а то и больше.
Хорошего вам дня.
Людям сейчас не до разговоров почти, точно. И я уже размечталась какими бы могли быть комментарии от AI. Здесь эту идею уже тестировал @meins0815, было интересно! Только я боюсь, что Xpilar уже показал весь потенциал своей идеи.
The comments @xpilar his bot gave were good. I still talk to people and if it was once and without link for sure it would motivate many to comment. Commenting is something that has to be learned. I know it myself. I alsways find it hard to interrupt a conversation and this is what you do on the internet. People "talk" and you should learn that it's fine to share your opinion or whatever you like to say or share. I was good at it years ago but as I started end 2023 again I felt very uncomfortable to comment.
At the moment I feel the same. Yesterday I invested 4 hours in commenting and I rarely write 3 or 10 words. If after a long comment the answer is: Okay, I understand why people stop commenting. Right now I feel exactly the same. So AI can do my job and I don't need to feel miserable about all the time I invested in reading and answering.
@stef1 what do you say? My hands feel painful right now and I only answer questions for the biggest part of the day over 14 and it's too much. I want to write.
Thanks for the talk @avoicest it is appreciated and I liked hearing your opinion
Yes, I absolutely agree with you, when we are commenting we write our thoughts, ideas, emotions and we put this everything in our comments. Only in that case the comment is not only simply: "Great bro!" but going in depth comment. When receiving such "Bro2.. comment often my fingers want to push "downvote" button because I am in doubt that the user read it at all and just written something to be seen or maybe simply because wanted to have an Upvote for such comment.
I already mentioned once that as experiment I decided to write at least 10 comments on one day and all of them supposed to be not less than 50 words and of course with good content. I spent definitely about 4 hours. I was very satisfied with myself and then just made few hours break to see what happens. The result was the same like you say: Simple, thankful comment, cold and not personal.
Because it was experiment from my side I was not disappointed but I got just a confirmation no matter how much and how good you write a comment the feedback is often the same, then I just wonder why to spend so much time nad our brain jogging to think about such comments if people are not there for engagement?
Greetings friend @xpilar
Promoting the witness account is a task that must be done to try to climb positions, and a very successful way is to leave comments on the publications, however, using the AI for this purpose did not go as expected, now well, the important thing is to correct and analyze other options, such as a simple template.
On the other hand, I am glad that you have reached an understanding with @steemchiller to recover your reputation which is not in discussion, due to the great love you have for the platform.
I wish you success in your next plans, which I am sure will be for the well being of the platform.
К счастью, никто не пострадал в процессе эксперимента. На Стимите отчаянно не хватает живых комментариев, поэтому встреча с вашим ботом сначала повергла меня в глубокое уныние. В основном смутила массовость комментариев.
В остальном это было забавно.
Да, люди перестали писать, но причина в том что цена Стима падает, трудно людей убедить быть здесь, писать и поддерживать, стимула нет.
По-моему, цена стима все еще хороша. И мне очень нравится, что крупные пользователи сейчас стараются сделать жизнь на сайте интереснее. Спасибо.
Suddenly, seeing such random and random comments, I also thought about the matter. I also commented on the Utness vote. Maybe we had nothing to do. I wish that everything continues properly again. Amen
Yes, hopefully everything will be back to "normal" how it was before, we need peace and not war.
Thanks