RE: What are the consequences of being spiritualist
Interesting sentiment, but I can't help but notice a few things that simply don't make sense to me in this post of yours.
Being a spiritualist or religious means that you are now an artist, the least to say, if not an alchemist, it means that you stopped being a drone driven person governed and lead by collective mind and victimising yourself all the time.
I don't really know about being a spiritualist (as I'm not really sure what it means exactly, maybe you can help), but I'm sure being religious doesn't free you from collective mind and group think, it puts you under the influence of those and quite powerfully so.
How exactly does being a spiritualist makes you an artist really how is that better than reason and rationality? If you want to react but not overreact, aren't analytical skills a much better tool than spirituality?
Isn't there a chance that being spiritualist just makes you a bit more smug about claiming that you know what the right reaction is instead of admitting you can't really alway be sure?
If you view my reply as an act that is here to provoke you, keep in mind that I wrote this to provoke you to think because I see objectionable points, not because I think you are a push-over as I have no idea or actually care that much if you are or aren't.
Cheers! :)
Man i love the way you think, finally i could have a meaningful conversation.
Well, to start with...being a spiritualist doesnt mean u r a monk who live in a temple, being a spiritualist ( at least from what i have researched and practiced over the years especially the true quran perspective to this thought) Is putting the soul in the center of your life, and the rest of ur life's aspects all around it (work, family, hobbies, well being, physical strength ..etc) the main stream spirituality take it to extremes that i didnt find convincing.
About religions and being religious, to be honest i havent looked into this in the bible yet, however in quran; allah warns to follow the collective mind, and asks people excplicitly not to follow whatever they inherited from their ancestors, you may tell me that it's not the case in today's muslims, and i have to agree, the majority of muslims now arent muslims because they BELIEVE it's right, but because it was the easiest way to lice since it is ready and came through their parents and so no need to think especially that the majority follows the same path so it cant be that all of them are wrong, and this the thing i try to educate people about, that for example we blieve in judgement day, and i ask them "what would you answer be if allah asked you how and why did you become muslim?" All of them give the same answer, that that we know quran is the words of allah and so islam must be right, then i go "how did you come to know that quran is the word of allah? Internt rubbish doesnt count, i want you authentic answer, your personal experience, not someone else's experience" then they shut me up.
So yeah, i totally agree with you, mainstream relgious path isnt satisfying for people with high consciousness, and for me i found the capacity in quran to give all the answers i search for and i challenge what i find day by day and i keep finding clues that the path i am on is correct.
And lastly, being a spiritualist doesnt mean that you will be emotions' driven person and that you had your logic and reason wiped out of the framework. It rather means that you just traveled inside yourself enough to know yourself, you are in a much better relationship with your soul, and that you know how to soom out whenever yoy face any curcumstance to face it with a calm still mind to react in a proper way.
Hooe i answered all of your points.
Again, it's one of few times that i finally meet someone with a great logic like yours who can talk and deliver his ideas this way. Really thanks bro
Thank you for the kind words! I love a good conversation too especially when there are things to be learned like it is for me now.
I guess I'm not really sure what that really entails. What does that mean in your case?
Talking about mainstream religions, I think no just all Muslims are Muslims because of their heritage and families, that's something that applies to most religions out there. The percentage of new converts is not huge though this is something that happens too, but most people don't really question the religion of their family and just go with it by default.
If you are looking for grains of meaning, you would probably be able to find them both in the Bible and in the Quran. The things is both holy books are full of inaccuracies, contradictions and supposedly moral commandments that I personally see as immoral and that's why I wouldn't use them as a guide on how to life my life.
Thank you for your reply, mate, it's a pleasure!
Good point, and that's what i meant whwn i said most people are comfortable with their religions cause it's tested as far as they are concerned.
Now about the holy books, you know what i believe in? If you read the bible in its originial text you wont find contradictions, i watched some debates for guy called Ahmad Deedat with pastors and ministers, and he shows them many verses and what they say in english, and how they're realy written in their original text.
As for quran, i believe that quran shouldnt be translated to any language, because in the process of translation the meaning of the word slip away because it depends on the perception of the translator who get the meaning from shiekhs, and those shiekhs just absorbed what came to them through history. In quran, what caused this huge issue with the mainstream understanding are two things:
1- synonymous thinking
2- giving priority for the prophet mohammad's sayings over quran.
Those two points made the disasters that you see now are being commited in the name of islam.
I can give you tens of examples on both, but im curious to know, what things that you say they're moral in wuran but you find immoral, can you give me an axample?
I have researched this and I have access to people who speak the original languages of the Bible fluently and what I've found is that the contradictions are plentiful and abundant. Very often they are so clear and blatant that even the vagues translation cannot be the culprit, like verses saying "Do X" while others saying "Don't do X".
I haven't read the whole Quran even in translation and I haven't gone into much depth with it.
Examples of things that I think are in the Quran that I find immoral are rules like punishing apostasy with death and stoning homosexuals.
Wonderful, well..first with apostasy, it's what mainstream shiekhs have concluded, while in many verses in quran allah give you the to believe in him or not, he even addresses prophet mohammad saying do you think you can force people to be believers? , he says also in many verses addressing the prophet that you are only a messanger who delivers a message and that's it, the messenger wasnt asked to make sure of applying sharia or islam upon other, alalh gave him his role which was only delivering the message of allah.
As for stonning, well..to start with; mainstrwam shiekhs say that adultry are punished also by stoning to death if he or she was married, and wipped if they're not, and this they brought from stories that were told about the prophet that many suspect they happen, while allah in quran says the punishment is wipping no matter who if they were married or not.
Now for homosexuals, who told you that their punishment is stonning to dearh, they concluded this from the punishment of people of the prophet Loot, who were all committing this sin among many other sins, they used to assult on conveys passing by their lands and they abused each other in many ways, so they concluded this from the story of those people. While allah different punishment in case both were males ( the punishment is to harm them by talk only) and females ( the punishment is to hold them in homes). Why he assigned punishment? He assigned punishment not for homoshexuals, but alos people who commits adultry.
While the punishments might have been made more severe than what might be written in the Quran specifically, there are still punishments and trying to punish either of the two behaviors/states of being (leaving a religion or being homosexual) is an immoral act. Just saying that either is a sin is enough to put the teaching in the immoral category for me.
bro leaving islam has no punishment, scan quran line by line you wont find a punishment for converting from islam to any religion.
as for the sexual relationships, there is more to discuss more than the nature of someone who suddenly felt attraction to same sex, or even born with it. note that quran didn't judge homosexuals with any kind of label, quran acknowledged the act itself as sin, exactly as adultery. ofcourse i cannot convince you that it is a sin, some consider it natural thing. some consider it a sin. what matters to me is that we accept people from all backgrounds and religions no matter what they did or do. i.e., i stopped hating anyone just because they sin differently.
As I said above, that is enough for me as it is an immoral act to do so.
That's good, but calling their actions sin not because of reason, but because of a book is still problematic.