Minnow Voting - It is still OK to vote 40 times a day
Many users have complained that with the new 4x voting strength, they are running through their voting power too quickly. Absent the slider to control the strength of votes, many users are only voting on 10 posts/comments per day, so they do not 'run out' of voting power. The "10 votes per day" is a fairly misunderstood concept, so I wanted to help clear something up.
You can still vote 40 times per day - even without the vote slider. Your votes will just be worth 1/4 as much.
I will demonstrate how below. This is a little simplified to demonstrate the concept, but it does work out even with the more complicated math.
Let's assume:
- You want to vote 40 times per day.
- You don't have a vote slider, so all your votes are cast with 100% strength.
- With pre-hf19 voting, each of your 40 votes would have added 1 cent to the payout of a post.
- Under the new voting, your votes are 4x as strong, so they now add 4 cents.
If you start voting 40x per day, what will happen?
- After a few days of doing this, your voting power will drop until it reaches an equilibrium at around 25%.
- Each vote you cast will be 1/4 as strong (since you are voting with 25% voting power).
- Each vote you cast will use up 1/4 as much of your total voting power (since only 25% is left).
- Each vote you cast will be worth 1/4 as much, so they will now be worth 1 cent instead of 4 cents.
Will I run out of voting power?
- No - not if you are casting around 40 votes per day.
- Each day your voting power will dip down to around 5-10%.
- Every day your voting power recharges by 20%, so you will gain what you spent back.
HF 19 gives us the choice
After you start voting forty times per day, you will end up casting forty '1 cent' votes. This is the same as if you were casting forty '1 cent' votes before the HF. If you want to cast only ten '4 cent' votes per day, that is entirely up to you - but you are not forced to. Forty '1 cent' votes is an option too.
Focus on Engagement
My suggestion is to not get too bogged down in the details of the math, curation rewards, and voting power. Focus on engaging with the community and voting on the stuff you like.
If you find 10 good posts/comments a day, then great - vote on those. If you find 40 good posts/comments a day, then even better - vote 40 times. The system will automatically adjust to your voting behavior, so that you can vote how you want.
Reminder to vote for witnesses!
The Steem witnesses are the elected leaders of the community that power the blockchain. Everybody should learn about the Steem witnesses and vote on who they think is best. If you don't know much about witnesses or aren't sure who to vote for, you can check out this Witness Voting Guide. If you think @timcliff is doing a great job, please consider voting for him as witness! You can vote for witnesses here: https://steemit.com/~witnesses
"My suggestion is to not get too bogged down in the details of the math, curation rewards, and voting power. "
Absolutely. Great advice. I still struggle with the idea of how many times should I vote, etc . . and was seriously fighting voting sometimes. I joined a bit before the latest hardfork, and noticed a big difference in the payouts cast by my votes immediately after.
Your advice is sound. Rather than going through steemdb to check my voting power and going to steemnow to check what my vote is worth, I just started to vote on content I enjoyed. It took some of the pressure off. There shouldn't have been any, but I have a habit of overthinking things too much.
When I just started reading people's posts that I liked, and didn't think too much about the voting scale, I enjoyed my time here more. I don't know if anyone else can identify with what I'm saying, but it helped me haha
I too got really caught up in the numbers, and it totally made my head spin and made it not fun. Now I just try to seek out good interaction, and create content that hopefully brings it to me!
Up until hardfork 19 I used to just vote without a thought.
And I still do, but now I usually vote at 10% for comments and 50% for posts. I vote on anything I like because hell, who needs to worry about voting power?
Only those that invest a lot of $$$$ in Steem Power and want to maximize their ROI via curation need to worry about that.
I agree with you. I just kept voting anyway. I'm pretty good at running my voting strength down, but my vote si still worth a couple of cents.
I am still trying to figure out how steemit works and had been on a upvoting spree, hiks! There are just so many helpful posts like this one, I just cannot not upvote.
Well, thanks for this key information. In fact, I was too worried about my upvoting habit. But why only 40 votes? Is your logic valid for more than 40 votes too? May be the vote value get down to the fraction of a cent but it would still have got some weight than 0. Isn't it? So why should I stop at 40 votes a day? Any explanation to it would be highly appreciated.
Thank you @timcliff for all these info and a sound logic to not to stop upvoting. I'd even like to upvote posts older than a week even if it's of no monetary value. I don't care much of curation rewards. So what's your take on it?
Yes, that is a great question. You can do more than 40 (or less). I just used 40 in my example because that is how it was prior to the HF. At some point if your voting power gets really low then you will not have enough SP to cast the minimum vote. I don't know where it reaches this point, but it is definitely more than 40 votes per day.
WOW! Thanks a ton for this clarification. Now I won't be so reluctant in my voting. It seems that you have given me a new freedom ...a freedom to vote to whomever I wish 😊
Yes, I have observed at times my votes do not make any difference to the potential payout figure of the post voted up but only its vote count goes up.
But I'd still prefer the sliding bar as others have that. It allows me to judge the content on its merit and I can express my vote according to the degree of my liking and admiration for the content I'm upvoting. Currently, all my votes are at par ...without any of my discretionary power to the content. It's just a case for either YES or NO or FLAG! I'm not allowed to judge the content and rate them e.g. if I wanna discriminate my voting weight to a 5 star content from a single or may be 3 star content, I just can't 😢. May be it doesn't make any substantial difference with my weak micro ...err nano-vote. But I'd love to progress to gain that privilege of a sliding scale soon. Presently, I'm enjoying my newly found freedom to vote. Hence upvoted yours 😂
Thank you @timcliff for this updated info from a different perspective. There is so much information out there that it makes hard to absorb it all.
I think Ill resteem this for sure!
I have been following the whole HF19 discussions with great interest. To me this a great example of emotions vs rationale.
On paper what you say makes absolute logical sense.
For most people it doesn't at all on an emotional level.
It is well known that the fear of loss is a powerful emotional motivator.
People can't articulate it but seeing something go from 100% to 25%
is experienced emotionally as a loss, so people will avoid it.
Doesn't matter that they are actually in exactly in the same situation as before, on a deep emotional level it seems like a negative to avoid.
You can't program incentives without keeping these emotional factors in mind. Perception is everything! Check out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion
People do weird stuff to avoid even minor losses, actually they'd much rather avoid loss than take a chance for a much higher gain. That seems to be what is happening with the whole HF 19 saga.
It doesn't make sense but there you go...
Haha, very true. Well said :)
I know that you may have heard this before, but as a newbie, I've been fascinated by the posts people write. And, when I see one that inspires me, I vote, sometimes even though I know it's not going to even leave even a penny but because psychologically, I hope it encourages the other person to know that even though I didn't have monetary value with my vote, that they understand that they have my appreciation. I have lots to learn still. And, probably shouldn't keep doing that because I guess my account won't have time to recharge? Either way, I know I'm going to figure this out. I've fallen in love the community.
I'd say go for it - just vote on what you like. The system will automatically adjust the strength of your votes.
I agree that the votes we cast shows that we support another person's time and effort. I can understand a vote not having much of a monetary value but the appreciation factor goes a long way. I want to grow my following so I make a point of commenting on whatever I think is most interesting, I agree with, or find valuable and informative. It has helped me thus far so I see nothing at all wrong with showing support however I can.
So true - it's beyond me why all these people with empty wallets have suddenly started worrying how much their votes are worth - your votes are worth bugger all - toss them about like confetti and make nice blue dots!
Thanks for the dis! I feel even more welcome now.
The reason I am asking questions because I have already been on platforms I worked hard for that were going to pay money at some future day. My hard work never was rewarded, the platforms disappeared and I was lucky to save my content. Today, I am unclear how Steemit will work and trying to figure it out.
I am excited about the platform, see the potential, and want to do well here. But so far - all my posts "pay" at .01 or less of "money" I am unsure about and my commenting and replying also do not pay. The promised interaction is not quite what I expected with 70% of my commenting unanswered or answered with one or two words. Or I am told it is rude to comment if I do not upvote the post or other comments on it. i'm still unclear about that.
My upvoting seems to be the only way to earn any income here at all for the moment. I am in se asia where very small amounts of money make a huge difference.
I came here to steemit because i was convinced this was a place to get the word out about my work while making some money out of it. Instead it turns out to be much more complicated than that. I am an accountant by training and experience with no knowledge of crypto until 14 days ago when I got here. If i do not understand what is going on now with tiny amounts of "money" being added to my wallet on occasion, then what is my motivation to continue?
You are very correct - I feel like my input is worth "bugger all" and hoping that will change soon. Enjoy your fiesta and hopefully soon I will join you.
I've just given you my 100% upvote for your in depth comment.
Steemit does pay off in the long run but it can take a long while to really make much money.
The main thing I learned on Steemit was about crypto currrences, and I have made a lot more from investing in those than in Steemit payouts.
And to be zen about it all - if you post quality content and stick with it long term, eventually you may find yourself doing what I'm doing now - thinking wow am I an established Steemer with money in my wallet, giving some advice? - And it only took 11 months! - hang in there, it may not happen over night, but it can happen. (You have 258 followers in a month - it took me about 2 months to get over 100 followers!)
Wow! You give me a lot of hope and thank you so much for the upvote and advice. I do feel positive about being here and really want my message to go out to a wider audience. And I am nothing if not a networker. I'm the lady that raises the funds for the elementary school and that type of thing.
I will just put my head down and post for awhile to see what happens. I've held back on my real content until I knew what I was doing, but that may never happen.
I'm an accountant but I do not enjoy finance or investing (hence broke). If I am a crpto pro in 11 months that will be a miracle! I have actually been thinking of how I can survive here without learning too much about it >>> Can I come up with any dumber idea? No!
Thank you again, and I will go on with renewed enthusiasm :)
I remember you from the old days of Tsu. I would say look up some of the old Tsuvians as a place to start #tsufamily. Perhaps you remember @molometer from there. He is very engaging. There are many engaging folks posting to #oldtimers that love to interact.
From my experience here, the money will come and the effort wont be wasted like on Tsu.
Thank you I am using #tsufamily on many of my posts and have connected with a lot of my old tsu friends. That was one of the wonderful things I found when I first got here. I'm happy you see this as not wasted effort. I'm committed for the time being and will do my best. I will check out your tag and connected with @molometer. Thank you so much for the tips!
That was very nice of you :)
Your comments are valuable. The platform is confusing. And in my opinion doing a bad job of welcoming minnows and explaining the platform to minnows.
If it makes you feel better to be in a crowd, there is a crowd of 20K new minnows who joined in the last month that feel exactly like you do
STEEM On!
This is the exact issue on one of my other platforms that failed - a small bunch at the top making bank and a huge hoard at the bottom being ignored. That platform failed because the little people could not find a way to make it work.
I want to invite my many contacts here, but I need to have results to show them. I intend to keep posting. I have not yet put much content while trying to figure it out. Maybe for the next days I will make more and longer posts to see what happens. Not sure at this point. Thanks for the reply :)
hopefully the powers that be find a way to spread the wealth which is a way to keep minnows interested
Yes, that needs to happen - but some people might come just to rank on Google if they have good content to share. Those of us who have built brands are always looking for new outlets.
Not as confusing as deciding when to buy cryptocurrencies!
Give it six months, then it will all make sense and you will be laughing all the way to the bank...
It does take a long time for most users to start earning here. There are thousands of people posting things, so when you post stuff it does not get noticed among the see of all the posts. The people that stick with it though and work on building a following and a "brand" for themselves do usually start to see returns on their effort. It is more of a long-term investment platform, more than a "get rick quick" one :) Good luck though. Looks like your comment here has gotten you off to a good start.
I do have a brand - six years old - with about 3000 pieces of content on multiple platforms. If you google fitinfun, it is all me me me. Now my Steemit profile is there too! That was quick and due to the Alexa ranking I am sure. This was one of the major selling points for me to come here.
Back when I started, Google did not even recognize the word and made it "fit'n fun." I feel proud of that, but I still do not get the results I seek or help other people as much as I want to.
I think I might just put my head down and get some of my content linked on here to see what happens. I've pretty much just been posting photos and music to get my feet wet. This is really why I joined, and why I join anywhere - to get my message out there where people will find it.
Thank you for your encouraging words, Tim. I think I am just down in the weeds today :)
We sell coconut oil too
http://www.frot.co.nz/design/health/coconut/
http://www.naturefoods.co.nz/coconut-products/coconut-oil
I definitely push coconut oil on my blog, videos and even a fb page. I love the stuff and can't be without it. I have an open bottle on my desk right now in case I have a dry skin emergency while working :) I will take a look and see where I can boost you!
Many thanks - just keep it away from your keyboard! :)
Good point. I need a maid.
@fitnfun, I've only been actively posting for 50+ days now and spent a lot of time, patiently learning how-to steemit. I have made friends and enough SP to have the sliding scale. It's humbling to start and learn. It's a pretty complex environment.
The one piece of advice I would give a person like yourself. One that has preloaded content to roll out, is to hold on to the content for a minute. Cruise all of the comments you can and make a few more friends. It's almost a waste to post your own content until you've met a bunch of people.
I don't care if you're William Shakespeare, if you don't have an audience, nobody will ever read your book.
Good luck. You'll do great on steemit.
Thank you- you are confirming what I was thinking too and why my posts are mostly photos for challenges now. I figure I need to have something on my feed, but not the important stuff yet. So I have been reading and making many comments a day and adding friends, just like you say.
I'm really encouraged you are doing so well in such a short time. That gives me hope and I will keep on trying. Thanks for the boost!
Plenty of people have boosted me along the way. Some of my posts do well, others don't , sometimes it's the content, others cases it's the timing. Content really disappears in the ether and steemit is finicky. If you don't have a following, you'll just be throwing pearls into the ocean.
Practice writing stuff that you're uncomfortable with. This is warm up time for you. You'll blow up shortly. Then you can unleash your content that is already in the can.
Thank you! The really amazing news for me is that the content ranks on google even as it fades from the view of steemers. That's the key point that got me here in the first place. My stuff is all "how to" and evergreen so should be found by outsiders even as steemers don't care anymore. This is really what has me waiting. I know the steemit content will take over my current content so I want to do a good job with it. So much possibility!
I say, post your good stuff now and in the future, Sharon! There's no downside to reusing content - or certainty reframing your content. I see plenty of people doing that. If you put out a lot of content, the way the interface is set up, nobody will ever even see your really old stuff. It's on the blockchain, but that's not a detriment for people seeing it for the first time a few months from now. Put your best foot forward, don't hold back.
Even the folks who have been here awhile can't count on much of anything for earnings. There's no figuring out what any one post will earn or not. Just keep it flowing and don't get too attached to any one piece content. Or build something that has future value to you in other forms, like a book. There's lots of folks doing that.
You are in a good position because you do have a lot of content to draw from, rather than create from scratch. The folks who do well here are the ones who put their stuff out there -- over and over!
Your upvotes on other people's content won't earn you anything worth cashing out, until you get a lot more SteemPower yourself. The best way for you now is to comment, comment, comment and post, post, post. Get connected with a project like the Minnow Support Project, too!
Steemit is a complicated ecosystem that is always evolving. Even people that do well here have to adjust from time to time and re-orient what they do. But the market capitalization of Steemit is so much higher than Tsu or the other platforms that try to support themselves by ads.
I don't post that consistently, and I've had gaps totaling about 5 months out of the 10 I've been here. I've got 5200 Steem Power now, worth over $8000 at today's values. That's not near what other people are earning, sure. But it's more than any of us ever made on Tsu!
You have a good story and message for folks. The Steemit developers and their young crowd, who have so much of the voting power right now, aren't necessarily the audience for that message. But there are other people here, too. As they grow here on Steemit, you will, too. All the best!
Thank you for the tsuser perspective. I'm seeing the differences and similarities here and trying to find my feet. The key thing for me is the Alexa ranking here and doing the best with the content I do have while making a positive presence here.
I think the commenting is my best bet since I learn so much from doing it. I also do not want to be talking to the wind these days. I have done too much of that in the past!
You have very encouraging results for being in and out. That gives me hope since I will just sit here and work like a grimy hermit as long as I think it will pay off and especially if it starts to.
Just like the old days with tsu-fever....
Good luck :)
As you can see from the upvotes on your comments, at the very beginning it is your interesting and thoughtful comments that will drive your (small) earnings and get those same people to read your articles. Good luck!
Thank you - I will keep on this path for the time being :)
I also joined recently and, yes, slowly change your MO to gain genuine followers who will read your articles. I discovered that I quite like curating so continue doing it within my niche subject area.
I'm not sure if I understand what curating means here.
I usually resteem a few posts for each of mine. So if i post in sunthursday, I will find a few I like and resteem those and possibly comment and/or upvote. Is that it? or is there something else?
I notice few people resteeming much and lots of people with only their own content on their feed. I also resteem the good "how to" posts I find in my never ending search for understanding here and the main posts of challenges I enter usually.
This good advice for everyone, not just minnows.
After HF 19 I was scared! to upvote more than 10 times, till' I reached the slider. So this post should help a lot of people to be quiet about that!
Thanks for the post Tim. I think it's important to put out information for all levels of Steemit users and you do a great job at this. This is one reason that I support you for Witness.
Thanks :)
This is such a relief! I've been trying so hard to keep my voting in control that my interactions had been mostly limited to those in my immediate feed. My VP just kept on dropping like crazy and when I hit 29%, I took to keeping a list of the posts I would like to upvote and then come back to it the next day or so to upvote then comment. I didn't want to just drop a comment and not upvote as I felt it wouldn't show how much I've appreciated the article. I even took to spacing my steemit reading so I could control my voting habit x.x
Thats funny. I was trying to mark and hunt back up articles because I would only vote if my power was in the 90 something's . It seems silly now. I'd think, I'd like to comment but my power's down in the 80s so I cant vote.. I'll just move on.
I was okay with voting a lot as I thought 50% was a long way away anyway. When I got there, I said, ah 30%. Then I caught up and went below it and noticed my upvotes weren't giving anyone even a cent. So I used a notepad to save the ones I know I would love to upvote if I had any power. So far, the list kept piling up and I was thinking of ways to go around that. But knowing it didn't matter if I went down the VP bar, I can start catching up I suppose. It's regrettable that any upvote doesn't give the single cent though but in the end, I suppose it's the thought that counts. An upvote is an upvote. A pat on the back is a pat on the back. And the money added is just a bonus. But now I have to find time to catch up lol. I will do it anyway because they deserve the pat on the back. Hopefully after I get through the list and keep up with my feed, I can start searching for more people to show my appreciation to. Good luck on your voting journey :P Thanks for sharing your experience (and upvote lol) :)