So, you hate money...
There are several authors on Steem who claim to hate money or not care about money. This attitude isn't just on Steem these people are everywhere. Constantly talking about the evils of money and greed.
However, they talk about money nearly incessantly. They brag about not caring about money, while they sneer at those who do.
These people cry out about others caring about money, but there is nearly always a boiling frustration in what they have to say.
I've got news for you...
If you are constantly bitching about money and lovers of money, you care about money. You are just bad at earning it. If you didn't care, you would just stop talking about it. Like the way, I never bring up .., say... Candy wrappers. I don't care about them, so I don't talk about them. That is all. Once in a while I come across a candy wrapper, I don't need to cry out about them, ever.
In my life I have lived both with and without money. I tend to prefer some of the comforts and freedoms that money brings.
Money is just a tool, I don't want it to just have it, I want it to have the freedom it brings.
If I have money and I want to go to a certain place, I can afford the things I need to go.. I don't have to go, but the choice is mine. If I don't have money, my options are limited.
If I have money and I get sick, I might be able to afford a better treatment, nobody is obligated to provide me services without compensation.
If a steak looks good to me and I have some money, I can buy a steak. That feels like a nice option to me.
Some of these people also hate work and jobs!
I also enjoy the process of earning money. When I worked in the workforce, I enjoyed my jobs. When I didn't enjoy them any longer I changed jobs. I have written before about how I clipped fish fins and cleaned condos during my early adult years. Okay, those jobs weren't the best jobs I ever had, and every moment wasn't filled with joy, but they were interesting and I still feel a sense of pride and satisfaction from doing them.
The challenges and problems of work have taught me patience and how to deal with excitement and disappointment. How to work better with people, how to try to solve problems, and too many lessons to list.
So, you think you live in a gift economy?
Cool! I don't care if you live in a gift economy. That is cool, good for you. I don't. I live in a system setup with money, bartering and trade. I live where when we provide things of value we expect things of value in return. Not only do I not live in a gift economy, I don't want to. That would mean I have no control over my own options.
I prefer an economy I can influence via my actions.
So, you want a Universal Income Society?
Good for you, I hope you find one.
I'm not interested in that at all. No, thank you. I would be terrified at what the providers of that income might require me to do in order to get my share. What personal power can I possibly have in a world where I can't support my own needs?
If you were to remove money and make "fish" the staple of an economy, then I am going to become very interested in learning how to fish.
That's just me. I try to view money as a tool. I am not rich, I am not poor, I believe in helping people when they are down, and I want people to have as much as they can, I just see money as a tool in that process. I don't want things to come easy or free.
Meant to trigger discussion. I am not invested in, nor is it my business how you view money, unless you feel the need to tell me about it all of the time. Especially, if you think I should "Wake Up" and view it from your point of view.
Also just in case, I'd just like to remind folks ...
I will "vote" you "up"!
I used to hate money. I hated it because I had lots of things I wanted to do that would “add value” as people would like to say, but none of those things had established ways of earning income, or when they did, they required such a degree of standardization that they no longer allowed me to be myself . At the same time, much of the work that people do actually contributes little to society or even hurts society while they are praised for “contributing to society” Those who expect more from themselves are often considered “lazy” or with their head in the clouds because they don’t want to suck it up and do something they hate and fool themselves into thinking they’re helping society or “adding value” .
I no longer hate money, because I see it for what it is. It’s energy that’s been tied up in a system. It’s a manufactured substitute for trust that we are lacking in each other. When you see it this way, you can easily understand and empathize with why people hate it and also see why to do away with it would be a denial of where we are at as a society. Hating our limitations is no way to overcome them. We need to own where we are at in order to improve. It’s not a necessary evil, it’s just where we are at. Hating money will only give more power to the greedy, the only thing that can take power away from money and give it back to people is building trust between individuals and communities. You may feel no need for any of that, but I personally feel that’s the general direction we need to go in to get past a lot of our current problems.
Now that societys ideas about money are changing and loosening up, I actually have an opportunity to make money doing what I love, so “bring it!” Is how I feel. I’m excited to get rich and share that wealth with others until there are pockets of people who can get their shit together enough to grow and share abundance without money, which I don’t really need to happen in my life time, as long as I can help trust between people grow with my work.
I do believe in a gift economy but I don’t feel any need to force it on others, that would be hypocritical.
If it was forced, it wouldn't be a gift economy. By definition. If the gift isn't voluntary, then it isn't a gift.
Good thoughts.
Must just add taxation is theft.
My point is there will always be a pecking order, bad actors, etc. It isn't money's fault.
I am fine with people living in a gift economy, I just don't want to be told I should embrace the idea. It isn't the least bit desirable to me. I like the feeling of working, trading, practicing, etc.
I agree with most of this. We live in a capitalist society and it takes money to function. Even "free" services have a cost somewhere.
I also see money as a neutral tool. It's not good or bad, but necessary. Not many things or people are absolutely good or bad. In this world, good people need money to do their good works. That's just how it is.
Where I disagree is I'd love to see a universal income. I would guess that it would stimulate the economy. Also, there's a lot of unpaid and underpaid labor happening. Many people are spending their days doing mind-numbing work to make ends meet. I'd love to see these jobs replaced by robots and automation and let people get to doing the work that preserves humanity.
We monetarily undervalue very important work. Especially the work that has been traditionally been done by women. The people who care for our children and elderly are not well compensated. Parents rush back to work after a baby is born to make ends meet and send their children to be raised by others.
These are things that a basic income could remedy. You made the point about the provider of the income holding power over people. How many people are right now in that exact position with their intimate partners?Financial abuse is a big part of domestic violence. A basic income that takes care of survival needs would make it easier to leave a financially abusive relationship.
"Financial abuse is a big part of domestic violence. A basic income that takes care of survival needs would make it easier to leave a financially abusive relationship."
I disagree. I have seen these relationships. The controller will be controlling that income as well. Having skills is what would make leaving easier.
I agree with nearly everything else you said. Good comment.
Good point. It's not all about the money with these relationships, it's control. If you were to hand the abused $10,000 to leave, they still may not be able to.
I read an article awhile back that recommended that women have a "fuck off fund." So when your partner seems to turn and become controlling, or your boss does something inappropriate, or your roommate turns into a monster, you don't for a moment have to think about staying in a bad relationship for the financial support. You can instantly tell that partner, roommate, or boss, "fuck off" and you won't be homeless.
I guess that's just emergency savings. It's more fun to call it a fuck off fund though.
I love this idea. Everyone should have a "Fuck off" fund. That word doesn't offend me, but I don't say it often. In this case, it seems perfect.
I think also the UBI will help AFTER they leave the abusive partner, as they no they can leave without facing complete destitution.
I agree we need to preserve humanity and boost up our people in the progress!
Unfortunately we DONT live in a capitalist society. We live in a semi/quasi captalist society that is regulated and money is distributed through theft (taxation). Nothing is of course free, because it is always (of course) paid for by someone. But unlike most people, you actually understands this - which makes you smarter than at least 70% of the dumbed down people in this world.
What...Can I marry you? (I will ask my wife if we can have split marriage)
This is so true.
People who "dont care about money" comes with a little note on them.
PS: We care about you making money so that we dont have to. But we will shame you into paying for us, and make it sound like we deserve your money.
This sickness is called socialism - and of course Steemit, with it's "free money" attracts these people, because they are out for any free money they can get their lazy asses on. Luckily there is no such thing as a free lunch.
I love how these morons say things like;
"Why cant we make our own society, where I fish, and then I sell you fish. You can farm, and sell me vegetables. It would be so great!"
I've got news for you Bozo. That system exists all ready, and it is running at around 20% capacity - and it is fucking called CAPITALISM!
I do think some of them view it as you should give me your money, others... But earning money is hard and not fun.
I think.. There will always be feast and famine. Humans have big egos.
Money isn't the problem, thinking that it is fair for others to support you is also not fair.
We should help each other (maybe) but forcing someone to help you, is called theft, no matter how it is done.
I think most people arent conscious enough to reflect on stuff like that at all. I'm trying to remember how I used to think as a young person. I just think I bought into the narrative that rich people usually didnt deserve their money. I didnt understand what it took. I didnt understand what "earned" meant. I thought I was being oppressed (imagine that. A upper middle class kid from Norway thinks he's being oppressed..no wonder poor blacks think they are being oppressed) at the same time no one every demanded anything of me. Or they they, but it was always under threats. Like..do this OR.. not, do this BECAUSE. And I did not understand that to become rich you had to create. And to create you had to work hard. Working hard means learning a lot of different things that has value in itself - meaning, not everyone can do it. The more stuff you can do, that no one else can do (or few people can do) the more value you create. You learn valuable skills. So when communists talk about taking the means of production..well..good luck, because that means of production, that company is being run by a person who knows the business and knows that exact workplace. And for some unskilled person who just took the workplace in a takeover would never be able to run it profitably. How on earth could the possibly learn all those skills that took the owner years and years to learn? So they will run it to the ground, which is what always happens under socialism and communism.
And when you grow up without any compass or values or system, the world is just one big confusing mess. It's chaos. Money, work, exercise, structure..all these things are very good for controlling the world - making it a bit less scary and chaotic.
I think most young "socialists" and "communist" are just very mindless unconscious people who are not in contact with their humanity at all. Thats what scares me. They are just pawns in a propaganda machinery. They just repeat sentences and slogans. And worst of all, they have no underlying basic moral principles. Thats what scares me the most.
Like..for me it's voluntaryism and non aggression principle. So, I know that I would never force anyone to do anything. I could be very persistent and persuasive. Sure. But not use physical force or threats of violence to force my will upon someone.
If people just looked into what are the most fundamental moral principles, we could have had peace.
I think I was very lucky to have some influences in my early 20s that helped me to see that I was thinking about things in slogans. (Well said by the way)
I also get concerned at how little younger people seem to consider concepts like right and wrong. From the outside looking in, it looks like "pleasure seeking" rather than seeking fulfillment and happiness. A whole generation has been taught to look outside of themselves to solve problems. I want others to meet my need to feel important, to feel provided for, to feel security, ...
In order to be okay, others can't say mean words... I could write a book. I don't mean it in a judgmental way, I get that they just have been fed bad information and they haven't figured it out yet.
I agreed. I already used this today in a post by @nikema but "Money isn't everything, but is ranks right up there with oxygen and is the only thing that works at the grocery store."
That's one thing that I have come to see as a problem with classifying the Millennials is mixing the enlightenment with the entitlement. This sense of entitlement is the cancer as you really have no choice but to contribute to society in a positive manor and earn your place so you can make your own decisions (for the most part.) Balancing that out is the enlightenment I suppose and if folks learn the same lessons we did as young idiots, it can result in a good thing.
Anyhow, you can hate what you can't control, or you can work to master it and gain more control for yourself. Money included.
Very well put, Balancing it out is where the enlightenment comes in. Unfortunately in this day and age it's so too easy for our young to be ruined for life by a system (government) that thrives on raping the wallets of the people supporting it. Locking up these troubled teens is only fueling the problem. They don't have the same values as older americans, I mean how could they right. Punishing them should be the parents job not left to the corrupt system in place that kidnaps with no repricussion and harrasses the masses daily all for money. If you don't care about money.. your part of the problem I say! Let's make change!... lot's of pun intended :) vote @Adam Kokesh 2020
Well said!
Apt!
Throws candy wrapper on the floor*
I don't think I have ever told you how much I appreciate you! This cracked me up.
lol
And how do you think you would feel about money being forced upon you having grown up in the society that we propose?
One where from the earliest age you are taught that work, and the knowlege needed for it, is the basis of self worth?
Where instead of work being a drudgery, endured because starvation and homelessness are less desireable, it is the fulfillment of your young life's dreams.
A society that asks you how you want to contribute rather than one that forces you to accept what is available at the time for the lowest compensation possible?
A society that actually delivers on its promise to let you excell at what you are good at despite your parents deficiencies in raising you.
Do you really expect kids from homes where dad drinks all his check and then beats mom out of her's to be able to function at a level equal to a child raised in a loving supportive home?
It is no different than being raised in a society that does the same.
Nor different than expecting a devout religionist to switch brands of beliefs.
Had you grown up in a society that gave you whatever you needed to be happy in return for 20k hours of your life in productive labor, would you then accept the crappy deal offered by crapitalism?
I think not.
The robots would already be here in such a society and unemployment wouldnt be a word, nor war, human trafficking, misery, poverty, nor all the other wonderfulness brought to us by crapitalism.
So, really it is a matter of perspective.
I hope my option of another purview opens your eyes, just a little.
It doesnt take much imagination to beat the status quo you claim to embrace.
"Had you grown up in a society that gave you whatever you needed to be happy in return for 20k hours of your life in productive labor, would you then accept the crappy deal offered by crapitalism?"
That is a slippery slope. "Society" is not capable of providing happiness to EVERYONE at the same time. We would have to be robots. There is nothing in nature that is "fair". Why should we expect fairness?
Are you saying that the level of happiness we get now is acceptable?
You are ok with how the folks in Homs, Syria have been treated by the status quo?
Take a look at the drone footage and think how many of the families that lived in those homes before they were turned into rubble just wanted to live peacefully in their wage slavery.
The status quo denied them even that.
We should expect 'fairness' because we are capable of rational thinking.
Just because rule by force is how it has been for most of recorded HIStory doesnt mean we arent capable of doing better than we are now.
I agree that society isnt going to make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time, but that doesnt preclude it from eradicating 100% of the poverty and 99% of the wars and humantrafficking.
Fairness is a subjective term. It is unrealistic to expect it.
Under crapitalism's rules i agree.
Its a dog eat dog system.
However, in a rational system it will be the status quo.
I don't actually know anyone who thinks their worldview is irrational.
Of course not, if they knew the difference they would change their opinions,...
So, tell me, do you like how the people of Homs, Syria and Yemen have been treated?
Do you consider it rational?
Just the price you pay for being on the wrong side of naked aggression?
One more crapitalistically craptastic day?
When confronted with the evidence of their irrationality, most folks, not all, alter their viewpoints.
I think it will be hard to find folks that support murdering little kids for profit, but how many morons are cheering the drone strikes?
It's an information war.
When I read your response I "hear"... I am sad that life isn't fair, and I want to fix it. I think that displays a kind heart, good ideals. However, I guess where we part ways, is that I don't think it is supposed to be fair.
I don't think there is any way to make things equal. There will always be a runt. A big puppy that eats more... There is no "Fair". If you take money out of the equation, it will be... But you were born closer to the river that has the good fish. There is no fair, money or not. That is my view.
My Mom drank, she was abusive. I spent some years struggling... That isn't Paris Hilton's fault. I don't expect her to pay me for it.
I don't dislike that world you want to build, I am fine with you thinking about it. I am unwilling to participate or for you to act like your view is "righter" than mine.
Yes, i agree.
We cant all be Einsteins, Jobs, or Platos.
Some of us will do little more than harvest crops from the field.
However, absent that labor the Einsteins would have to do it themselves, and would then have less time to ponder the stars.
No question some labor contributes more to the general welfare, but when that is valued higher, through monetary means, it sets in motion what we have now, priveleged, and disadvantaged, children.
By eliminating the money score card our contributions will be measured by the happiness of those around us.
I will be seriously happy when the plumber unstops my drain and he will be happy with the guy that invented the machine to automate that.
I am less happy when i have to work 7 days to pay for his one day's labor as he is unhappy about working 100 days to pay for the machine.
So, i will never fix enough cars to equal a surgeon saving one baby through performing a c-section, i just envision a world where we each do that for the love of the work without the attached monetary consequences of one c-section being equal to three years of fixing cars.
This being the case, the easiest way from here to FreeBorn Anarchism is to just keep what we have but instead of paying for stuff, everything is free.
The guy that supplies the builders continues to supply the materials, the builders continue to build the goods, the bums find something to contribute, and we all eat for free, even the previously wealthy.
It really could be that simple, buuuuuut,......cognitive dissanance says, 'No!!', very loudly, and folks mostly dont question their programming.
Just ask a muslim when he will be converting to scientology.
I know using affirmations makes me come off as arrogant, like i think im better than you because i have put together an attainable solution to most of society's ailments, but were you to meet me in person that would not be the impression you would leave the meeting with, id hope, anyways.
(I recognize that my cause needs a better messenger.)
In order to influence a crowd affirmations are required, crowds dont rationalize, they react. Source
When we begin to speak as individuals it is important to explain the whys of what one is saying.
I hope i can do that for you in a way that doesnt trigger any more automated rejections.
I just have far more practice with crowdspeak than interpersonal relations, i am highly antisocial, for reasons that may become more obvious were you to pursue a deeper understanding of 'me'.
I appreciate you and I appreciate where you are coming from. (Appreciation is different than agreement) I also respect the idea.
I think when I get triggered is when a gift economy person comes into my space and attacks my beliefs.
I would totally listen if it came from the place where you wrote the above.
The simple switch to... This is what I believe and why I believe it. I think, wow, that is interesting. When someone tells me how to think, I tend to respond with go away with your silly ideas.
We all have room to pitch our position better, in fact in this very article, I was attempting to trigger people and thus conversation. I get maybe I have some skills others do not. They were not given to me, they were learned to some degree. Although I fully acknowledge despite family issues I was raised a middle class, white American, and that does impact my point of view.
While you have not changed my mind, I have found some understanding of what you think and why.
Let's call that a win!
When someone said that Money is the root of all evil, it's absolutely wrong! They quoted the holy book with wrong reading. It simply says that "...LOVE OF MONEY is the root of all evil." It's in loving it and how people using it. I agree with you that money is a Tool to help and minister to other people.
Many people only say well-wishes and good things to people-in-need BUT when it comes to actual support -in giving time, they're no where to be found. That's the saddest part of the story.
So the problem actually of not practically loving others is: The lack of money.
@whatsup hahahahahaha you made a lot scenes but i did not come across your post before coming up with this hahahaha