Trump supporters, what about his endorsement of torture and the murdering of the innocent families of terrorists? [repost]

caesar (41)in #politics • 8 years ago

This is what really confuses me about Trump managing to get a leading position (now presumptive nominee) when he's said that he is pro-torture, despite all evidence saying torture doesn't work. And he has said that he would murder the families of terrorists. If you haven't heard it, it might sound like hyperbole or exaggeration, but his words are clear and he makes sure to be clear by repeating himself (at 1:38):

(at 1:38)
Personally I don't want to see the President of the United States of America have such a flippant disregard for human rights, dignity, and life. With the power the President can yield it should not be given to someone who doesn't understand what kind of consequences using torture or intentionally murdering innocent civilians would bring, both moral and practical, to our country.

I posted this 2 months ago, very early in Steemit's existence. Nobody responded. I am reposting it now because there's more people here now. It got a few votes, so if you don't like that it's been reposted, you can go back to the original thread and downvote it if you want.

#trump

8 years ago in #politics by caesar (41)

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tinfoilfedora (63) 8 years ago

Its called WAR...
Trump is simply speaking in plain english about war. The Radical Islamic Muslim Terrorists have declared war on most of the world, and are killing innocent people. They specifically avoid hitting government targets, and kill innocent bystanders. These people deserve to die, along with anyone who helps them, including their families that they care about. That is war. Without fear of losing the things they care about, nothing will stop them.

Besides, all the things you are complaining about Trump saying, Obama has been approving for 7 years.
Obama approves drone strikes, killing people without trials.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/15/90-of-people-killed-by-us-drone-strikes-in-afghani/
Obama also approves double-taps, killing the first responders and family members that come to help after an explosion. https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2013/08/01/get-the-data-the-return-of-double-tap-drone-strikes/
Obama has also been approving firing missiles at funerals, just to get all the friends, family, and everyone else.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/10/drone-attacks-at-funerals-of-people-killed-in-drone-strikes/280821/

Everything you complain about has been happening for years, yet the only thing you are outraged about is Trump speaking plainly about it. Perhaps realistic discussions about politics and war are not for you. Leave that to the military where I am positive they will use much more frightening and vulgar language, while they protect us from the religious nuts that have declared war on us.

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caesar (41) 8 years ago

These people deserve to die, along with anyone who helps them, including their families that they care about.

No, the family members including children of people who actively oppose us do not deserve to die. They don't necessarily provide them support in terrorism. Killing them just because of relation to a terrorist is murder and absolutely wrong.

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pharesim (74) 8 years ago (edited)

I don't agree with a lot of the previous comment - war was started by the US, we all know the Afghanistan and Iraq wars were based on lies. And I appreciate the abolishing of death sentences in civilized countries.

But his point that all you hold against Trump is happening already isn't deniable. He's only saying it loud, Hillary wouldn't act any different.

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tinfoilfedora (63) 8 years ago (edited)

Nice off topic PC addition... why add that first sentence?

It doesn't matter who started it, we are stuck with it. It would be nice to see some action to finish it.
And yes, Hillary was the Secretary of State during these wars, she would continue them just for political power.

Edit to respond because of thread comment limit:
They have declared war. It does not matter who started it 20 years ago, neither of us had any say in it... War has been declared and they are attacking now (every month or so).

You are acting like the OP, all the killing is a normal part of war that both sides are engaged in.
At this point someone has to have the will to stop it, probably by doing even worse things, otherwise this terrorist killing of innocent bystanders will just continue. That is how wars end, with a massive push that kills the most enemies, demoralizes them enough to stop fighting, and makes them want to stop to protect their families or homeland. This was is even worse because there is no enemy homeland, it is a religion spread across the world. The only way to make them want to stop their attack on the world, is to make them fear for their friends and families and religions safety and continued existence.

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caesar (41) 8 years ago

Lowering ourselves to the level of terrorists that kill innocent people would make us just as bad, if not worse. I get the feeling that if you were living in Syria you'd be one of the assholes who joined ISIS because you don't seem to have any respect for life.

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pharesim (74) 8 years ago (edited)

Well, you said the terrorists declared war, and I disagree. I also disagree that bringing fear and death over them will end it. That's what started the whole issue in the first place.
Pledging to kill the families of terrorists or supporters is just insane. For them, blood relationships are a lot more important than for us. By killing the wife and kids of one guy, you suddenly have 10 angry cousins against you. Thought till the end, you'd have to clear out the whole area ;-)

You have to stop killing to end wars.

// I still disagree. That strategy may work against standing armies in conventional warfare. But fear is what fuels the religious zealot. You cannot kill a billion people, and you cannot keep them in submission forever.
But as you said, we don't have a saying anyway. I was opposed to starting the wars, nobody cares about my opinion today. This topic is about politicians, and none of them advocates peace.

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tinfoilfedora (63) 8 years ago

I see you ignored Obama's active role in approving what you are complaining about.

Try dealing with reality instead of wishful thinking. This is what happens in a war. Check the history books.
They threaten and kill our families and friends, and we retaliate with the exact same force if we want to live.

Your talk does absolutely nothing to help the real situation. At least Trump is making people discuss reality.

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dantheman (73) 8 years ago

Lessor of the available evils.

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caesar (41) 8 years ago (edited)

Hillary might be evil in her own way, but I can't think of anything more evil than intentionally murdering the families of terrorists. While I really dislike her, I don't think she would stoop that low.

And if anyone is wondering, I am not going to be voting for Clinton either.

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cryptogee (75) 8 years ago

Trump just says what he thinks people want to hear, I'm not sure he's quite as mad as he comes across.

If he wins, I reckon he'll be impeached in less than 18 months, most of his own party won't support his ideas. Or of course, what's more likely, is he drops all his pre-election crap, just as they all do.

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