RE: Housing Industry Association Says Housing Supply Stuck, Boost Mass Immigration!
Immigration is a tool, as with any other policy that can be used to to fulfill the requirements of any nation.
Unfortunately as with many things out there, "trial and error" seems to be the way people learn, sometimes when it is far too late.
As far as Immigration as a means of fixing things in this world, there is an excellent definition and explanation given here in the videos that I have attached. Please watch them and try to understand that we need to work on making the entire world a better place, otherwise there is no better future for all mankind.
Why Australian policy makers are not learning from the mistakes that The USA has made IDK!
Looks like we have to learn the hard way too.
PS. When I was back home just over a year ago, I was shocked at the sizes of the plots of land.
What used to be the pride and joy of Australians, a backyard for the kids to play in and family to do its partying. Maybe a veggie patch, a gum tree, a plum tree, apple tree and so on has been literally killed by greed.
I can understand that the local municipalities want more money but doing it at the expense of the quality of life that we pride ourselves on is definitely not the solution.
Not to mention all the extra costs such policies bring to citizens, from being exclusively dependent upon supermarkets for everything, to the extra costs of new infrastructure that needs to be built/upgraded to support the rise in numbers within each municipality.
Stealing from Peter to give to Paul all at the expense of the people living in those municipalities. Yet we constantly vote for those people bringing about these ludicrous policies.
You have touched a topic that is affecting many a western nation and the quality of life is dropping in many of the "Western nations".
Thanks for this video. But he uses projections that cannot possibly be accurate. they assume that people will not become Americans when they come and procreate less. This is infact what happens in the US after one generation in the country. People have less babies. Also the US right now is at near full employment with its levels of immigration so what resources does he claim immigrants are taking. Finally every study from every reputable place I have seen shows that immigrants are a net positive on the economy. So I get lost as to his point. What resources does he mean specifically? Space? Thanks.
The lesson to be learned from this video is that in order for immigration to work it needs to be utilized in accordance with the requirements of a nation.
Likewise the second lesson is that in order to "fix" the problems in this world people need to concentrate their efforts on making life better in those parts of this world that are currently less fortunate (for what ever reasons).
As far as "statistics" go and the numbers that mass media throws around justifying government policies, I would much rather look at the facts and not "statistics".
Which is what the speaker/presenter in these videos is using.
Immigration needs to be rationalized and used in accordance with the needs of a nation. It shall never be a solution to the worlds problems.
Personally, I would much rather see people living decent lives in every country on this earth instead of looking for new opportunities in other countries because of the fact that their homeland is in a mess.
Long term solution to making life better for everyone on this planet is to invest in the quality of life elsewhere which starts from education, infrastructure and the list goes on.
The funds invested into immigration and then all the costs that it incurs upon taxpayers later on as far as booming population requirements could very well be diverted to investing into those places that need it much more.
I think, that you may have missed the point, I hope that this comment helps clear things up.
"The lesson to be learned from this video is that in order for immigration to work it needs to be utilized in accordance with the requirements of a nation."
You are right!
The problem is that you get two types of immigrants: one type want's to get a job, blend in, get better future for their family and kids and forget as fast as he can about all the crap he was running from and that's the type you would normally want.
But there is another type: comes to another country and starts from demands - give me money, give me housing, give me this give me that, don't try to push your customs and rules on me because my religion/philosophy/whatever is better than yours, respect my crazy customs coming from the time I was living in the bushes or on the desert because I am poor victim of some prosecution and you owe my all that blah blah blah.
"Long term solution to making life better for everyone on this planet is to invest in the quality of life elsewhere which starts from education, infrastructure and the list goes on."
This is theoretically correct statement but it takes time and we are talking usually about few generations passing away. In the long run it's the only solution in macro-scale. But it's not viable perspective for somebody living now and there in such messy place. Cleaning up the mess seems also quite problematic - see what happened in Iraq or Libya ;-)
I humbly disagree with your statements. I will state again that every report form every reputable group shows that immigrants into the US do not cause a drain on resources. They are a benefit to the economy. I am not talking about illegal immigration. We have to agree on that or we are only talking about misinformation. Lets take it from there and I am happy to engage with you.
Well, I am more familiar with situation in Europe (where unfortunately it's much easier to drain state resources than it is in the US) but I never said that all immigrants cause such drain - just certain type. And it's not only a matter of draining resources but also of causing long lasting problems for the host country. Some people fit in and some don't. Nothing to do with race & color - its an issue with mentality I think. And the job of policymakers is to filter out those which would not fit.
To make long story short - when I go to another country I respect local customs, follow local rules and I don't expect that all my own "sensitivities" would be accommodated because I am just a guest. And if I decided to stay I would be prepared to adjust my ways to the ways of locals not the other way around. And just to make it clear: I am talking about adjustment in respect of such behavior which would be unacceptable to the locals, so let's say that I wouldn't eat pork or drink alcohol in a Muslim country but I would still put lemon juice in my tea 😉
But if one looks at statistics you are quite right - on the average immigration benefits the economy of the host.
Thank you my friend for your comments. I agree with what you are saying fully. Yes too many immigrants do not respect local customs and do not remain committed to both fully respect and fit into the new culture they find themselves in. And as you say also there is definitely two types of immigrants that each have two levels of quality. This is a real problem.
I think (and it is a complex issue), the West has to agree tto not get into any wars where they do not have a clear strategy of what to do with refugees. We all know the minute the bombs start dropping three things will happen. Innocent people will start getting killed, millions of people will want to flee and the aid groups will demand that first world countries take them in.
It has happened so often that anyone who says this will not be an issue must be considered a liar with a side agenda. There has to be a plan for what happens with these people. No plan, no war.
Next there also needs to be a redistribution plan that includes indoctrination into the new culture. Immigrants must go through training in local cultures the local language and show that they have a commitment to adopting both. There should be an international standard for this. It benefits both the host country and the immigrant.
Also there must be a standardized way to reject the bad apples. Right now it is too difficult to get rid of them. This should be easy and clear.
Finally, there must be much more done within these countries to calm the fears of locals and to focus on the need to be accommodating based on what is needed for the country not just for the immigrants. These countries benefit overall but politicians can come in and tell lies to paint the immigrants as interlopers.
Just some thought on the issue. What do you think and no I am not a politician nor do I want to be one. Thanks.
I fully agree that the problem needs to be addressed at the root so these people stay home. But it is important to note that the US would rather have these countries poor and allow in a few rather than make the investments into their countries to build up their economies. They want the cheap labor. Look at how we use Mexico as a low labor sweat shop.
I have an issue with your video because of the way the person in it presented his "data". It is inauthentic and he acts as if Congress is just setting arbitrary numbers for no reason. Not true. The numbers were agreed to by both parties because America projected the need for these people in our workforce. Remember we have an aging population that does not pay taxes any more. Who is going to pay into social security?
He does not talk about the reasons they have at all.
Further, the video was designed to be a show. This is an aside but it is important. You notice how when he adds the additional piping to the piping on the desk how he cannot reach then he needs a stool which at first he can't find, then he needs a ladder which he can't find. Its a show meant to get people excited about his topic instead of focusing on the facts. Again an aside but important and one of the reasons I cannot take him seriously. Sam thing with the curtain.
This is important because for me it detracts from his points. Tell me what resources he is talking about coming into short supply when immigrants are adding not subtracting from the bottom line of the US?
Back to your point and I agree. We should do all we can to get them to stay home, but you have to remember that capitalism requires someone to be on the low end of the totem pole and who cannot have the same level of lifestyle of those on the top. In other words we cannot do what you are asking and maintain the type of lifestyle we have. It is impossible with the current system. Travel like I have to places like China and India and see 13 year old boys making iphones and you understand. We want consumable crap cheap. That means low quality of life for many. There is no compromise on this. One must go. Which one do you think it will be?
Thanks and I appreciate your comments and share your frustrations.
Dude, I love the way you talk.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen shit in my life as far as the unfairness out there goes and I have never seen or experienced the aftermath of communism/socialism.
So I'll stick to capitalism as a topic that I know and understand.
It works, not because it abuses those who fail to take on the challenges and responsibilities of their own failures, but because it rewards effort and results.
All the rest is pure and utter BS.
PS. Maybe I have seen bits and pieces of this world where the shit hit the fan and they all blame everyone else for it. But that is irrelevant in a conversation with someone who has seen it all.
I have experienced the aftermath of communism/socialism and I definitely prefer things as they are now.
I don't miss this "socialism & peoples republic" crap even a tiny little bit even that what we had over here was quite liberal version thereof.
All this "socialism" doesn't work at all and we were used to say that socialism is just a longer and very bumpy road back to capitalism.
There was also another saying: socialism is like a cheap toilet paper - long, grey and only good for wiping your ass (pardon my French) 😉
I agree overall but I think we have to be careful with titles. There are elements of socialism that work quite in society (healthcare in many European countries and Canada and Australia), the social services system including things like social security, early childhood development programs, drug abuse programs, even government financial assistance for innovative businesses that guys like Elon Musk benefit from greatly. These are all socialist schemes. But when it is all socialism and the government gets in the middle of everyone's business it always goes bad.
Again, I am a capitalist but I am really concerned that capitalism today is creating a bubble. capitalism has to be fed and it's favorite food is suppressing people. Look at how France still treats many of its territories like colonies. They take billions from these places yet does next to nothing to build up these economies because in building them up these places would take their freedom and end the money grab. I am not singling France out, only the mentality.
In my humble opinion capitalism has to be restrained. The markets are too easily manipulated and there are too many bad people or people who simply do not care to say that everything will just work out. History has shown it will not. And not everyone is equal. In any system there will be those who prosper in such a disproportionate way, that it threatens the system. I think we are almost there now. In the US today the top 10% income earners take home 50% of al the income generated in the country. and the top 1% take home 20% of the income. The top 1/10 financially own more than the bottom 75 %. This is not only a US phenomenon by the way. Globally, the 8 richest people own more than 50% of the world's population.
Now I am not trying to count anyone's money, but imagine the influence this small group has over markets and governments. We, the average people cannot get represented and the needs and agendas of the people are never met. So I say that the same conditions you talk about for communism are here for most during capitalism.
What is the solution. It is complicated but has to take into account intervention that works on this issue. By the way, this is not jsut an issue for those who are not in the top 10%. They should be worried too. Because when the power cannot eat they attack the rich. Think of the story of Marie Antoinette. So ti is in all our interests to get this right.
Thanks and sorry for the long post.
"So this is in all our interests to get this right."
I agree :-)
I agree and let's do it. Thanks for the chat.
I took it upon myself to travel because I wanted to see not just talk about it. I tell people don't listen to me or anyone else, take a trip. But let me be clear I am not anti-capitalism, I made a lot of money in the US, but I am a realist. You want what you have, someone will have to do without. And so any ideas of fixing up the rest of the world will not happen. i.e. welcome to continued immigration and understanding why it will not stop. The only way things will change is how they have historically, those who have less will get tired of it and take from those who have a lot. So it has been and so it will continue to be as long as we don't learn these lessons. Thanks and God bless.
OK. I suggest you go write a book on the topic.
Unfortunately no time but if I had some time I just might. thanks.
You are correct on both counts. I often see resource wealth as being a bit like energy. The Earth doesn't have any more than it already has so in order for some to have more than they need, then others must go without and in order for the top one's to have WAY more than they need millions have to go without. Such is the concentration of wealth in one direction.
However, I also believe that the world population could all live in relative comfort if the balance wasn't so extremely one sided and there would still be those who could have their bit more than others. One of the biggest problems with capitalism is when there is loss of empathy.
While I'm more in favour of capitalism than socialism, I do think that a balance of the two works out better than one method alone. A central path, so to say.
@minismallholding. Thank you for your comments and I agree that there is enough and it is disproportionately aimed at one group. But my comments are that capitalism in facts needs this imbalance in order to thrive. Think about it, people in the west are not sold on having enough to be comfortable, we are constantly benig pushed to have more than enough. We already have enough but instead are pushed a new iphone every 9 months and a new car ever 3 to 4 years. This is what drives growth. In order to maintain this agenda, there has to be an imbalance. This amount of consumption by the world is impossible.
Capitalism has this built into itself and it is self-perpetuating. In a business, you can only remain successful if you both increase revenues and reduce your own spending. There is no such scenario in capitalism. As a result it only pushes increasing revenues and increasing spending. Look at the governments and how they operate. No one ever talks about slowing down even though we have too much crap already.
So yes a balance is needed, but also a different mindset because all we currently do is create bubbles and then create bad solutions that push the ball down the road but never solve anything. This cannot go on indefinitely. And in the meantime, the lowest in the western countries get less and less. All in the name of unabated consumption.
There are no easy answers but the answers must include some sort of shifts in policies and thinking by those who have so much. Historically, these types of situations cause revolutions followed by periods of extreme chaos. Let's hope it does not come to that. Thanks again.
Yes, we do seem to go in cycles. Lets hope that we also evolve and learn from each one, although I don't see it happening in my life time.
The gumball one confirms for me something I've already been noticing and that is that refugees that we see arriving here are not the impoverished ones, they are the ones that can afford to escape. The really poor ones get left behind, likely to die, while we sit pretty thinking that we've done something good.
You've hit the nail on the head. Until we can help raise the rest of the world out of poverty, instead of clawing in what we can for our own comforts, nothing will change.