The evolution of Adam - Was there death before Adam

in #religion7 years ago (edited)

Adam is described as the first flesh.

Some interpret this to mean that prior to Adam there was no death and that the fall introduced death to the entire planet.


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This is also an intriguing conundrum.

What happened to the cells of the forbidden fruit that was eaten? did they not die?

Adam also lived for many years outside of the garden of Eden before his eventual death. Did this mean that nothing died in the whole of creation waiting for him to die?

In fact we have Cain killing Able and so that death also preceded the death of Adam...

So perhaps what is implied something a little different to what jumps to mind at first reading.

The fall definitely changed things from the state they were in Eden. But Eden was of limited geographical extent.

What was going on outside of Eden?

What had been going on before Eden?

I'm going to do things a little different this time round and see what your thoughts are before giving my opinions.

I'll give it a day or so for lots of comments so we can have a diversity of opinions.

Previous parts of this Series.

Were the seven days of creation in Genesis seven twenty four hour periods? - Where do these notions originate?

Were the seven days of creation in Genesis seven twenty four hour periods? - Delving a little deeper

Were the seven days of creation in Genesis seven twenty four hour periods? - Into the detail

Were the seven days of creation in Genesis seven twenty four hour periods? - Some conclusions

Were the seven days of creation in Genesis seven twenty four hour periods? - Some more conclusions

Were the seven days of creation in Genesis seven twenty four hour periods? - The implications.

The evolution of Adam - a conundrum

The evolution of Adam - Who is Adam

The evolution of Adam - Two trees and choice

The evolution of Adam - Partaking of the fruit and feeling naked

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Death was brought into the world, not only physical death in which you soul departs from the body and it's life force is gone so it decays. You could say it is energy being transfered from one place or another if you will. There is spiritual death which isn't a ceasing of existence but also a transfer of the state of the soul to either heaven in God's presence or hell away from God's presence. Since we are made in God's image and have consciousness as in God's image and likeness our soul is eternal. "The wages of sin is death(eternal separation from God) the gift of God is Eternal life through Christ Jesus Our Lord." Romans 6:23. ''Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned'' Romans 5:12. There is also different flesh, all flesh is not the same flesh and the state of animals and plant life are different than that of the Human soul. You could speculate but the Scriptures are sufficient for all godliness and doctrine needed to bring the individual to saving faith through the One and only sufficient sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. Death Burial Resurrection Repentance and Faith(believe).

"death (eternal separation from God)"

The phrase "eternal separation from God" is not a scriptural concept.

Rather, it is a Greek heresy that has been introduced in complete opposition to what all of scripture has to say.

Death is death. God says "The soul that sins will die." God is a consuming fire.

Man is mortal, he is not an eternal being as the Greeks supposed. Unless and until man comes to believe in Jesus and is granted eternal life, he is doomed to die.

"...the gift of God is Eternal life through Christ Jesus Our Lord."

According to scripture, eternal life is clearly and only a gift from God through Jesus. It is not part of the inherent nature of man.

Apart from Jesus, man is doomed to die... not to live forever apart from God.

I have heard of this but I struggle with the fact that when death comes and there is judgement. The soul that sins can do all harm that he pleases here then is just be no more and not face the consequence for their actions. I think of the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man and how there was agony in the fire or how there is weeping and nashing of teeth, where the fire is not quenched and worm does not die. Or being cast in the lake of fire.

Hello, friend @truconspiracy,

I thank you for your thoughtful response.

Please note that I did not say they would not have to face the consequences of their actions.

Every person who sins will face the fiery judgement of Jesus who is God. This is clearly presented here:

"...who shall be punished with eternal destruction by the presence of the Lord and by the glory of his power,..."
- 2 Thessalonians 1:9

For a more thorough explanation of this, you may find this article helpful:

"The Curmudgeon's Bible - II Thessalonians 1"

Regarding the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, I hope to write more on this in the future. Meanwhile, I would be happy to answer any other questions you may have.

Man soul is by nature ethernal -why do you deny it ?

I deny it simply because scripture teaches that it is mortal. If you click on the links above, you can read the scriptures directly.

What evidence do you have that man's soul is naturally eternal?

All the atoms are in the nature ethernal , it is proven by science , why should the soul not follow the natural laws ?!

And what evidence do you have it isn't ethernal ?

If science proves anything, it is that atoms are not eternal. All atoms decay. All share a characteristic called "entropy." "Science" teaches that the universe as a whole is heading for heat death, running down, wearing out.

And so, if man's soul is a part of that nature, it too will wear out.

The evidence I have, repeating myself once again, is that God has warned man in the bible that he will die. Have you read the linked scriptures?

This was in fact God's first warning to man:

"...but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
- Genesis 2:17

Atoms are ethernal, energy as well - principles of thermodynamics - energy is always recycled.

You say all atoms decay - no ... The atoms that decay are the radioactive ones not all as you pretend.

Bible is evidence ? No, bible is information - and btw - the words you quoted says adam will die but not the soul is mentioned - the level is physical , see the context.

"- principles of thermodynamics - energy is always recycled."

Current understanding of science is that free energy in a thermodynamic system is subject to irreversible loss - see this Wikipedia article and its subordinate links, particularly Thermodynamic free energy.

Apart from some external system input, all atoms as a part of their thermodynamic systems decay to a state of "heat death."

If you read the information about Adam in the immediate context of Genesis, you will find that he is a "soul."

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
- Genesis 2:7

English "soul" == Hebrew נֶפֶשׁ (nephesh)

I'll repeat my question: What evidence do you have that the soul is eternal? When the human body dies, it stops breathing, it stops thinking. The atoms that comprise the brain stop transmitting electrical impulses. It all stops and rots...

"...for you are dust,
and to dust you shall return."

- Genesis 3:19

Please follow and read the links I've provided.

Do you have any references? I understand that you are expressing your opinion, and that's fine, but you've so far provided no support whatsoever for your statements.

You mean like with Gnosticism?

As I understand Gnosticism, they did believe in a multi-part being that included a "soul." I'm not sure if they believed that the soul survived death.

The Greeks, Socrates and Plato, taught the existence of an eternal soul in man. This was an idea that they got from the Egyptians - you can read about that in this article.

The idea of an innately eternal soul is not taught in the bible.

Interesting perspective. What do you mean by innately?

I mean that it is not part of the fundamental design of a human being. Being eternal is not a basic property of man. In fact, the opposite is true. We are as ephemeral as grass:

"As for man, his days are like grass;
    he flourishes like a flower of the field;
for the wind passes over it, and it is gone,
    and its place knows it no more."

- Psalm 103:15-16

However, the good news is this: Jesus/God offers us permanence if we believe in him:

"For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."
- John 6:40

But how would you know. What if we are simply experiencing a reflection of another realm, like in the matrix? 🙂

There is really only one way to "know" anything, and that is by acting on a belief. It is called faith. You choose someone who seems trustworthy, and then you act on what they have told you, and see what the outcome is.

God says "Oh, taste and see that the Lord is good!
Blessed is the man who takes refuge in him!"

- Psalm 34:8

I have chosen to trust in the words of Jesus.

Nice to see it from a different angle

Interesting perspective. But how does the energy transfer take place? 😄

That my friend is a mystery. I would suppose that it would be God calling soul from the body Maybe one day quantum physics, mechanics may shed some light on the transfer of the soul energy to a different state.

But why would anyone wanna do something like that? 😀

Truth is meant to be discovered eventually.

OK but how?

The illumination of the Holy Spirit leads people to the Truth(Christ) Faith is a necessary aspect.

That is true. Thanks for connecting. I hope you have a WONDERFUL day!! 😀

Well I am not a believer, but didn't God plan everything from the start?

The questions we ask are in a sense, part his grand plan only and we can never make a difference.

Sorry if this sounds cynical, but yeah. My 2 cents.

@gavvet Another thought as i was looking at the post title.. As i can see, if God is not limited by time nor matter nor space, He sees everything that in a single timeline as a single instance, He knows what has happened and what is to come.. it doesn't really matter to Him,

Time is only applicable to finite matters or beings like us and the 7 days of creation is for our limited understanding to comprehend life itself maybe. And hopefully, when the limited comprehension, are we able to understand God a little better.

what do you think?

@gavvet i've just published a post about the 4 questions of life that one should ask.

Would love to hear from you on that post.

https://steemit.com/life/@daniel.tan/the-4-fundamental-questions-of-life-that-one-should-ask-what-do-you-think

If people only took notice of the most crucial factor on the Book of Genesis...

Genesis Chapter 1 (Recovery Version)
1- In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2- BUT the earth became waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was brooding upon the surface of the waters.

The BUT plays a vital role in bridging science & religion (Christianity). The BUT is a vast length of time, nobody knows how long the time frame is, but as science tells it, the earth is roughly 4.5-4.6 billion years old. That BUT translates the huge expanse between verse 1 & 2. Factor in the the timeline of life on earth, we can definitely say there was death before Adam, before the creation of man.

Just my 2 cents. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

well.. i realised that i tend to overthink at times.. but after reading this article, i asked myself, does it really matter if there is death before Adam. What would life be without God?

As what is worse than being separated from the One True God who loves and gives Himself for our redemption than death?

I dunno.. i come to term with death in that sense and sees that indeed, that is much hopelessness with the coming of the Risen King.

I believe the death that was introduced by Adam's fall was more spiritual(separation from God) than physical. If it was physical, he would have died immediately he ate the fruit.

I belief there was death before Adam and Adam had witnessed death even before he was sacked from the Garden of Eden. God created Adam and Eve to live happily ever after in the garden but HE did not create the animals so. Adam witnessed animals dying so he knew how death was like.

I don't think a day was 24 hours and there is plenty of proof of other animals on this earth .But God did create the man and they did go through all the stages of the 7 days. That's just my thoughts

I had taken "Adam" to mean mankind, the progenitor being emblematic of the entire species. I also interpret the "fruit" as being a form of language, a form not yet arrived at. Thus the fruit is still alive, still becoming a part of the man's body and man is not dead. Man may die, but may be transformed into something completely different. The Logos or Word is none other than He.....