RE: Self-voting user list since HF19
On the one hand, I agree that lists like these are taking things a bit too far. I still found myself browsing through it though and checking a few accounts to see if I was following them and whether I even still liked their stuff. Why? Because if they upvote themselves for such amounts of money, I don't feel like giving them my support when I don't actually care about their topics. It's just one more way to clean up my list to follow less people, so I can actually keep up with the ones I feel deserve more support.
You're saying we could downvote content we find undeserving. I would love to, seriously, but how should I go about doing that? We've all seen the grief people get when they downvote a crap post that's earning way too much money. I feel like I would certainly ruin my own earnings and reputation if I start downvoting undeserving posts. Any author that holds a grudge and a lot of SP would downvote me into oblivion... I don't feel like I am truly, fairly able to curate bad posts, other than ignoring them. Not if I still want to have a shot here myself.
The only content I can (and do) safely downvote is that of newbies who post plagiarized content or copy/past comments...
Just a little comment to agree with you about the fear I feel using downvotes. I see so much about the grief it causes people. I'm grateful that there are accounts that go about downvoting plagiarized content so that I don't have to. And I'm also grateful that cheetah just comments, because sometimes it's accused me of plagiarizing my own content, when it was just an introduction or what-have-you for a contest.
The point is, there's too much stress around downvoting for me to engage in it. I think I've used it twice, and felt icky each time. There's an odd push-pull to the financials in this system. On the one hand, I think people are more conscientiously friendly when it comes to content that is original, even if it's controversial, on the other hand, people trying to game the system for profit are creating an ecosystem that doesn't inherently reward quality content (at least IMHO)
I agree with everything you said except that this is raw data with almost 0 analysis. It does more harm than good. My name is up there...why? Because I bought 12k Steem. Transisto's name is up there, he is one of the biggest proponents of anti self voting....but because his account is worth so much, he shows up.
We need to solve the self-upvoting issue...but analysis is needed that takes into account the Steem power of an account and probably many other variables. Otherwise all we do is push people into selling their Steem and/or creating multiple accounts. Why power up if I'm going to be put on a list...while the author keeps pumping his Steem out of the platform. Which is better...powering up or selling Steem?
I know that some people are up there, simply because their accounts are really big. It's why I did not unfollow anyone I actually appreciate, because in their cases, I really don't mind that they show up in this list. I know they do a lot for the community and don't abuse their VP by only upvoting themselves.
The only real way to solve most of this is by getting rid of self-voting. However, the biggest abusers will just continue doing so by using an alt account...
... and that is precisely where the discussion must go over time; To how we can introduce better solutions against sybil/sockpuppets/alternate accounts.
@playfulfoodie a great point. To donwvote something you don't like is going to get you retaliation much worse unless its a noob account.
So maybe only down vote plagiarism, copy pasta and ligament "wrong" posts and just hopefully not to many people will up vote something that has a tendency to not be very valuable to the community.
Yes, definitely! I don't think downvoting something, just because you don't like it, is good practice anyway. Though I definitely do not agree with plenty of high payouts on crap posts...
Well the solution to that is not voting on them and maybe making comments on that post or talking to others who constantly vote on it. Lots of votes are auto votes anyways so might need to contact and discuss with people who are autoupvoting crap and maybe they will change their vote.
That's a good point. I wonder how active the autovoters are, or if they are even still around. Maybe their bot's the only one who's still active even!
yea well all powerful accounts use auto voters either for their sock puppets, friends or curation rewards.
Thats why authors who generally make a lot on their posts get so many bot up votes because they are reliable curation accounts without having to do ANYTHING at all.
Yeah, it's getting more and more frustrating to work for hardly any views or curation at all.
Yes that is true, yet at the same time what does FB pay for a post?
Well we all know the answer to that....
Also while it may not be a viable "job/income" for most it still emphasizes a VERY important point which is "it is best to only post/write about what is truly enjoyable or something you want to produce anyways"
Also something I always try and remind people of is that "we are the power" we have the power even if MUCH less than others to help shape this community. Be honest about it, be intelligent, considerate and progressive and we shall improve!
Yeah, we'll just keep on trying... I'm still worried that we're not enough of us to battle the others though. But you're right, just do what you think is good (and fun).
I think those with more power should be subject to more transparency. The only problem i see is that there might be far worse than this list shows using multiple accounts. As long as people don't go lynching everyone who self upvotes, I don't see any problem with this kind of post, and if they do, don't hoot the messenger, thanks @calamus056
You're definitely right here.
Doesn't it work the same in real life? People with more power are more visible and looked up against (the rich and famous), so they are held accountable for their actions more often than regular folk.
It seems like that but I think a lot of times we focus on he things they do that don't matter like who they are dating and what they tweet rather than how they make their money and who their true motives for doing things.
That's true. All about the juicy gossip. It's a world of extremes, where the fact that someone worked hard for what they got, or donates to a charity, is just not as interesting as what they did when they were drunk.
"so they are held accountable for their actions" - Are they really? Feels like the other way around at times. One example on how not to end up on this list -
Voting exchange: I see you have 100k SP as do I, we agree to vote one post from the other a day. You won't end up on this list, yet the end result is the same. This list will do very little in weeding out abusive voting. And this is something that came up my mind in 5 seconds - something far more sophisticated can be implemented with a bit of time. But yes, I do agree that this information should still be available and posted regularly.
I have the full list and all data. But it's wayyyyy too much data for 1 post so i have to filter it. In this case i just filtered everything under $100. Because, do we really care about people self-voting a few cents? Most people probably care way less about that than people self-voting thousands or even tens of thousands of Dollars each month, right?
Personally I care more about the percentage than the dollar amount.
I would love to see the list of people who self vote over 50% of their post.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@calamus056/self-voting-user-list-since-hf19-part-3-potential-comment-abuse
You're right. Thanks for providing this info.
right!
Fair point. The only people really able to battle a whale are other whales, so we can only call them out through lists like these.
You're right, there are a lot of ways to avoid getting on this list. Having multiple accounts is another one. I don't think there are any ways to catch every bad apple here, sadly. We'll just have to do what we can.
It shouldn't matter who voted for the post, what matters is if the post is over-valued.
Unless you're an owl. It's your only way to communicate, and I'd hate to shut you down. If you're an owl, there's really nothing else to do except hoot the messenger.