RE: OPEN LETTER TO @WHALES: please be mindfull with your MASS-DOWNVOTES before it's to late
As we both know, downvotes when used properly are good for the Steem economy as they preclude the efficacy of redirecting inflation to things that are not helpful such as spam, plagiarism, or low effort miners of bid bot votes.
It is important for us to encourage a good worth ethic within the Steem culture and that is where I see downvotes as having a certain utility. There is a bad side when they are not used properly such as in cases of content agnostic revenge flagging.
Here are a few things I believe we should remember to downvote or flag properly:
- Leave constructive feedback
- Keep your emotions out of it.
- Try to view the whole picture of the value the post brings to the network rather than focusing on one thing
- Don't flag for ideological reasons.
I could expand on all of these but one in particular I would like to speak on is #4. Let's say you disagree about some conspiracy theory but there is an author on Steem producing content supporting that theory.
Let's say they go all out in the presentation. They create images, GIFs, and the language is superb... But ideologically you disagree with the premise.
That's ok. We can agree to disagree but that does not mean we ought to downvote it. Nobody is saying you have to upvote it, either.
Personally, I may give it an upvote just to reward the time and effort even if it is something I do not agree with ideologically.
That bring said.. My upvotes are not to be seen as endorsement neither are my downvotes the opposite. I vote based on perceived value of the content irrespective of the ideas or beliefs they espouse.
Now, it is true I may gravitate towards curating those that represent my worldview but that is my right and everyone else's as well.
Thanks for bringing this topic to the forefront.
You see what @smidge-tv just did. That would be called an opinion or revenge flag.
(He used to get flagged by us for spamming copy/paste YT videos)
Thanks for providing an example of what NOT to do, Smidge.
Dear @anthonyadavisii
Have a look at what happened with my own publication. For no reason it has been downvoted by few powerful accounts and all SP in rewards (none coming from bots) were cleared out.
Over half million SP behind downvotes, without any explanation why I was flagged so hard.
I never felt so discouraged to continue my adventure on Steem blockchain, the way I am today ....
cc: @achim03, @devann, @oivas, @definethedollar, @missaj, @goldmanmorgan, @deirdyweirdy, @fucho80, @zekepickleman, @minimining, @yonnathang, @alokkumar121, @juanmolina, @dm312, @movingman, @maxbow, @xpilar, @newhope, @majes, @majes.tytyty, @mariusfebruary, @deathcross, @digital-wisdom, @futuremind, @shadowspub, @wakeupkitty
I've been looking at this since the notification and trying to compose some thoughts for you, but this one is tough, because to me it defies any semblance of logic.
I think you jumped into the snake pit with this post my friend. I admire your courage to speak about something that many might be afraid to address in this space.
The powers that be implement the code, and we take what we get. It reminds me of of the general social structure of the world. It isn't much different is it? The one's at the top dictate what is good for all of us, and unless people unite with common goals, nothing ever changes. The polarization of society makes it pretty difficult. (People don't agree on things..)
I find you to be someone who does their best on Steem, and you think of creative ways to build community. Regardless of some of the backlash you've received, I can only see it as a projection of other peoples problems. You do a fine job. Don't let this get you down my friend. I hope this doesn't discourage you to the point of quitting. That is a real danger , an implosion of the ecosystem, people will not continually stick around if they get bullied post after post.
Best wishes @crypto.piotr,
@futuremind
Good morning @futuremind
I'm sorry for not replying earlier. I've been sick for couple of days and I'm only slowly catching up with replying to all comments. I surely didn't mean to ignore you and I appreciate your time.
It's sad to know that you think that all I care about is creating dramma. I hope you can see my point of view: this post wasn't about me and about any dramma at all. I tried (in the most polite and mature way) bring up issue that is really affecting many users.
Personally I know several users, who has been affected with mass downvotes and some of them already decided to quit this platform. I still see it as a problem and please allow me to give you another great example: @ulqu3
This user just posted something after being away for quite some time. He then upvoted his publication using bidbots and got heavily downvoted. Which would be okey, as long as someone would bother to inform him why is he being flagged by so many people.
This is the problem I've been trying to underline. It's important to create healthy mindset of those powerful stakeholders. It's not about creating dramma (as you suggested in other comment).
Thank you again for your reply.
Yours,
Piotr
Yes, the drama comment was unfair of me to say. I was wrong for that Piotr. I really don't think you are drama oriented. I was in a shitty mood, and shouldn't have even responded in that moment.
I am sorry for saying that.
I actually very much agree with the downvote problem. If a large stake holder is going to take away someones rewards, they certainly should comment with reason. I really wish downvotes were never implemented into the system to begin with. There are some logical arguments to why they need to be there, but I see mostly negative outcomes from the implementation, and I think a better system could have been designed.
I'm a top stake holder in the weedcash community. It's very specific to cannabis related content. We try to keep it on topic, and we utilize flags when necessary. We have a specific system though, where if a user posts out of context, they get a free pass on the first post. We notify them that they have utilized the tag incorrectly, and no flag is given. If they continue to post out of context, then we flag. Some might even disagree with this system as well, but the idea is to show some compassion, because it could be a new user who just made a mistake. We want to encourage, not discourage.
It's easier in the niche tribe communities that are specific to topics, but not so easy in the main tags, because it comes down to difference of opinion, and we are not all going to agree on things. In this sense, I see flags as inefficient and detrimental to the ecosytem, and as you stated, something that has the potential to influence people to quit completely. That is a loss for steem.
When I say you jumped into the snake pit, I do not mean it in a drama oriented way, and stated it was something that I felt admiration for, because it takes courage to talk about something that could result in flags. I do feel you are pretty courageous.
Thank you again for responding maturely to my rather immature comment.
PS. I hope you are making a quick recovery and feeling better.
Best regards,
@futuremind
Brother @crypto.piotr:
With my little knowledge I can affirm that those negative votes were made by the same person. These downvotes were issued in the same minute of time. These accounts must be related in some way.
Then this "punishment" obeys the criteria of a single "mind."
Do not feel sad about this. It was simply an excessive action of a human being with a lot of SP but without any scruples.
As you know, I had a similar experience of being subjected to downvotes. My response was to simply let it pass. I took a few days off, stayed away, and revitalized my personal motivation and agenda.
Of course, the support I got from you and numerous other Steemit compatriots helped a lot.
It took a while to get over the discouragement, but now I'm back. Once again, I'm enjoying composing posts.
I hope you find yourself re-inspired and rejuvenated. Cheers!
Yeah, I remember your unpleasent experience @majes.tytyty
Did anyone contact you and warned you that using bidbots will be punishable before you received downvotes?
Yours
Piotr
Yes, I was contacted by a Steemer named @lordbutterfly. His message(s) were blunt, rude, and very undiplomatic. At first, I had no idea why he contacted me.
Whatever ... it's in the past now. Let's make the best of the New Steem.
Cheers!
Unfortunatelly lordbutterfly isn't very polite. I also encountered his not really pleasent comments few times.
Hope you're not discouraged @majes.tytyty
I was a bit discouraged, but I'm well over that nonsense, and I'm back to the "enthusiastic" level. Creating posts regularly, and enjoying it.
Last night, I went to HUG gym restaurant for their amazing plate of chicken cutlets and huge salad. Sat at the same table in the same chair, but missed my good friend Piotr.
Hope you are doing well in Poland. Also, I hope that someday soon, the price of Steem and other cryptos will ascend to their "proper" levels, and that then we can arrange to meet somewhere ... in Europe or SE Asia, maybe.
Cheers!
Old good days @majes.tytyty. I hope I will be able to visit CM next year for a month. Hopefully you will also still be there.
ps. I've heard that CM is currently almost like a ghost town, with very little tourists. Right? Is immigration still an issue ?
Friend @crypto.piotr, a few hours ago comment on your post, then I come and I find this.
Very accurate your words I really think that it is a mistake that should be corrected, I do not understand why someone is censured and punished simply for sharing their opinion regarding the changes made, we need to be more responsible when using the negative feedback for not harm someone who has exemplary behavior within this community.
Strength friend, we must move on, I am sure that this can be solved and these people reflect to withdraw that negative vote.
@fucho80
Flagging without conversation is abuse.
If you get a group of accounts just farming flag away. If that fails employ the terms of service.
Serial Flagotting, close the accounts with the terms of service.
Better for the price to go down to 1 or 2 cents than have the whole thing die completely.
What the fuck are you talking about. Did you think you wandered into a centralized platform pretending to be decentralized or are you seriously suggesting that anyone holds the power to close accounts on a decentralized platform? You confuse the Terms of Service for a Front end, with the non existing and never conceived Terms of Service for the platform. Fuck you're retarded.
That may be so but only someone with some serious comprehension issues would think this is actually a decentralized platform.
Sure, because the fact that both the stake and the network is decentralized is just pretend, it's actually all cleverly disguised because all the witnesses are belong to one entity.
You don't have to belong to one particular group the power/decision making is centralized within a minority of the holders.
Prove it, so far you've made wild claims and tried to attack my abilities for not agreeing with your wild, unsubstantiated claims, prove your claim that the power is centralized within a minority of holders, and demonstrate that steem is not a decentralized platform and how it's a matter of comprehension to not think so.
Just look at the recent HF and how many people objected to it, they didn't want it, including some of the witnesses and large whale accounts but it went through anyway. I've never seen a HF yet that was met with so many objections from upper tier. No, I am not going to go dig up that which you can find on your own written all over the place on here.
Sure, you're so full of shit as per usual, and no surprise that you want me to dig up what you yourself claim, why not burden me with the onus of proof, how convenient and kind of you.
You bad manners are only outdone by your ignorance
Your obsession with @berniesanders is pathetic. Get a life.
You are bernie, you fuckwit and you are obsessed with me.
I am beginning to suspect that you want to suck my cock ! ewww
Your obsession with @berniesanders is pathetic. Get a life.
:D
You're a fuckwit. You literally think that there is a way to block accounts on a decentralized platform. Fuckwit.
@baah If you are a bernie account you already know full well that there is a way to do that.
If you are an independent account (which I am beginning to doubt) you should still know it, because you were commenting on the same post where i learned that not only is it possible, but it has happened before. So i actually bother my ass to check it out. Gosh fancy that, this is a blockchain and we can check things out lol
So I will leave it up to others to decide who is the fuckwit in this instance.
If you are an independent account, you will do well to ask questions before jumping to false conclusions. When you don't it just makes you look even more stupid than you did before.
Your obsession with @berniesanders is pathetic. Get a life.
You're a fuckwit because you think that there is any kind of way to block people fro transacting freely on the chain. Fuckwit.
What ever fantasy you want to believe is fine with me.
Be as ridiculous as you want. I enjoy a really good laugh
thanks
Your obsession with @berniesanders is pathetic. Get a life.
Sure fuckwit, you keep lying that there is any way for anyone to block anyone else from transacting with the chain or the content on it, I'm sure calling anything contrary to your bullshit lie a fantasy or a matter of faith/belief and ridiculous is not a total farce.
''there are none so blind as those who will not see''
Or in your parlance, you are a Fuckwit hahahahaha
Your obsession with @berniesanders is pathetic. Get a life.
Sure I'm a fuckwit, after all I think that on a decentralized, transparent, censorship proof blockchain there is a way to ban people or to hold them to "the terms of service".
#ban-accounts-muh
This is a mature approach and standard, sadly many will fall short.
Posted using Partiko iOS
@smidge-tv why are you downvoting this?
If you look above and read you may figure it out. Everything in life isn't always as it appears.
I agree with you. There is plenty of content I vote for simply because it is good and well written although I am not interested in the subject. I do not care about that. I love to read and it still can be a good read.
The only problem is where to go if they start hunting you to break your neck because it is a great sport or to prove they can? Who will stop this? Where to get your right?
We all are here and invest in Steem.
Some with money, others by writing..
💕
Posted using Partiko Android
Hi @anthonyadavisii
I was just going through some older replies and I realized that I never thanked you for taking the time to write this comment.
Appreciate it a lot,
Piotr
"Let's say you disagree about some conspiracy theory but there is an author on Steem producing content supporting that theory."
I will downvote anything that is a lie like pizzagate. Or that goes against coventional scientific wisdom like Anti Vaccine posts. Its not about opinions or disagreement. This place is a cesspool of disinformation
Think it looks better from the positions of "orthodoxy" to actually articulate a counter argument demonstrating how it is disinformation.
It's easy to dismiss whole theories that are unpopular but takes a bit more effort to attack the underlying supports or things they use to try and substantiate said theory.
Also,I do believe it's healthy for scientific consensus to be challenged so the things we assume to be so can be re-examined. I mean people have believed some wonky shit take blood letting for instance.