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RE: Steemit Update
Would witnesses really want to subsidize operations of Steemit.com? Steemit.com remains the central pillar for Steem, drawing in the vast majority of actual users and usage, so there's some argument to be made for it. However, Steemit.com itself has proven to be unsustainable. I remain skeptical that a large scale social network will ever be sustainable on a blockchain without centralized layers. This entire post and all of Ned's comments below are firm evidence.
PS: Before someone says it - no, speculation is not a sustainable financial model.
just because steemit inc/steemit.com is unsustainable it doesn't mean steem is. ned is the biggest whale here but one man's opinions has got nothing to do with a social network being sustainable or not.
if a central body is absolutely necessary for social, we should ditch steem and stick to facebook. but i thought people (especially crypto lovers and steemians) were so sick of it?
this is more like an opportunity for witnesses to actually step up and start making changes for more decentralization. it could be one of many solutions to come that shows steem's potential is not restricted to steemit.com or steemit inc or ned.
Never said anything about "central body being absolutely necessary for social". Furthermore, it's counterproductive to cite extreme and irrelevant examples such as Facebook.
The world doesn't work in extreme blacks and whites. The reality is more nuanced. To make Steem sustainable, we need centralized layers like Hivemind. This will retain the decentralized nature of the Steem blockchain, whilst streamlining computing resources required and thus greatly reducing costs. It's not just Steem, top blockchains like Bitcoin and Ethereum are also working on centralized layers of some kind for scalability and sustainability. It is clear this is the future of public blockchains, and does not mean "central body is absolutely necessary".
PS: I'm not interested in arguing semantics of "centralized layer", so don't bother.
if that's not what you meant then i stand corrected. facebook is not extreme and irrelevant because if this community remains dependent on one individual who owns a private company, it's just as extreme.
to say that we need centralized layers like hivemind is probably more black and white than anything i said. it could be one of many possible solutions. i'm guessing when you say the reality is nuanced we shouldn't look at hivemind as the only choice for sustainability. but sustanable for who?
ps. i think i understand what you mean by a 'centralized layer'. the only thing i wanna point out is that it doesn't have to come from steemit inc. and one company being unsustainable doesn't prove its necessity either.
Sure, there can be other solutions, but Hivemind is our best option that can be implemented in the near term for significantly improving sustainability. For whom? For everyone that runs an app or service on Steem, and requires Steem API nodes. Thus, eventually, for the end user. We want Steem to survive and thrive, and for that, improved scalability is essential. I understand you don't like centralized bodies, but almost all of Steem exists today, as it is, because of Steemit Inc. It has been two and a half years, and precious little has been contributed to Steem outside of Steemit Inc. Sure, it doesn't have to be that way, but that's the base reality. Till the time that other organisations and individuals start contributing significantly to Steem, Steemit Inc's survival is important to Steem.
yes steemit inc was the creator. but it doesn't mean they should hang on to control or should have any more weight in deciding where to go from here. it's a sad reality that after 2 and a half years this supposed 'decentralized' and 'censorship-resistant' platform still requires a central body/layer/whatever to stay running. if ned never used those words then everything i said would be irrelevant.
i have to disagree with you because steemit inc's survival is no longer important. even if steemit.com and api.steemit.com suddenly disappeared we'd still have other full nodes run by witnesses (or anybody who thinks the cost is worth it?). a lot of people will be confused and there'll be chaos. and i guess prices would drop too. (believe me i wouldn't like it. dan gave me a 100% downvote for saying most people would be locked out if steemit.com disappeared)
but the blockchain will stay and devs would simply switch servers. if steem breaks down due to one company/one man, then it doesn't deserve to stay. but i almost know that wouldn't be the case. or hope.. :)
I don't see it as being specifically for Steemit Inc., I see it as a path towards providing a decentralized data backbone for all of steem, which any app can use. Steemit is just one app on the steem platform.
Sure, but realistically, it's not "just one app". It's the vast majority of Steem - that was my concern. Ned says it costs $2 million per year to sustain Steemit Inc's infrastructure. Whilst some of it is the frontend, it's implied much of it is running Steem API nodes - their primary focus now is to reduce costs on them. I don't have numbers, but judging by activity, witnesses will have to take up an order of magnitude or more greater load. At the current prices, all top witnesses combined well have witness revenues of under $750k. How will we support a $2 million infrastructure? Yes, witnesses can go for cheaper infrastructure than AWS, streamline things considerably etc., but the sustainability seems very questionable. Not to mention, Steem is tiny now. We'll need to scale 100x to be relevant to the mainstream, and 1000x to compete with Reddit.
It's not adding up.
Yes, the price may increase, and it likely will, but history has showed us that price does not scale with activity - it is its own speculative bubble, and not a sustainable revenue model.
To be clear - I'm all for witnesses co-operating for the betterment of Steem, but I'm concerned about the harsh realities of the situation. Is it even feasible?
This screams inefficiency. Very few database providers require costs in this range. It's time we take a serious look at providing infrastructure instead of just "buying more AWS instances" because they have cash to blow.
I've been digging into the API flow of steem recently and quite frankly I'm shocked at how poorly maintained things are. My rough estimates are at least one order of magnitude improvement with relatively minimal changes. This isn't theoretical, I have actionable plans for improvements.
So is it feasible? Yes, absolutely. Sure, we have to encourage development and deprecate old API formats, but it will be worth it in the long run.
Lets take our heads out of the bull-market induced sands. They call the period after a market bubble the "plateau of productivity"... lets embrace that, and buckle down and work.
@anyx us investors also have skills and connections, I and probably other stakeholders would be willing to use our many skills and connections to help @ned with getting the liabilities down and the assets up etc etc.
@ned has earned reputation and goodwill from Fyrstikken Inc. So all we need to do is to get together virtually and talk and do things like a scheduled team/external board members & advisors.
I normally charge a lot for this important service, but because of Goodwill, I will give @Steemit Inc. or @ned personal an ONE-year agreement for ONE DOLLAR for ONE dedicated hour per week over 52 weeks.
May I suggest Sundays since that is the day most leaders sit alone in their home offices and plan for the battles of the week a day before the non-leaders arrive on Mondays, so Sundays it is a good day to meet with very little distractions, 100% focused & 100% dedicated like stakeholders/co-owners of the STEEM blockchain.
You game?
Thanks for the insight, much appreciated. Like I mentioned, I had figured things could be streamlined significantly, but didn't expect 10x overspending from Steemit Inc. It doesn't sound possible, but then again, laying off 70% of your workforce months after going on a hiring spree seems far fetched too.
All the best, I hope both Steemit Inc. and fellow top witnesses pay attention to your plan and implement them.