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RE: A Radically Updated Steem Whitepaper
The Witnesses voted for linear over n^2 and that is why there is linear. Overwhelmingly, it appears to have positive results in terms of user engagement and growth. Consider other alternatives than n^2 to mitigate "abuse."
I'm sure there are many other ways to address the spam caused by self voting, none of them perfect, I just wish people working at Steemit were more engaged in the discussion of possible solutions, There has been at least 15 serious posts specifically about the issue and possible solutions and nobody from Steemit commented on them if only to acknowledge having read it.
Hopefully, they're actually already working on it behind the scenes.
Even I just wrote about the issues here.
I haven't exactly been here all that long, but the problems are obvious.
We'll see how long they'll let them drag on for fear of upsetting the "witnesses."
If nothing valid is done to combat the problem, we'll all be witnesses to the downfall of steem. :P
As much as I love Steemit, Steemit is very well known for horrible communication as well as PR.
Could be so easily fixed. Maybe one day, one day it will have to be in order to reach the masses thats for sure.
well, that's all detailed in the whitepaper.
Consider other alternatives to full linear in order to mollify new users and users who are not well-versed on how to build their social media presence/following.
And also consider that there were other protocols that have been eliminated, as I stated in my original comment. A series of changes has led to the amount of abuse/exploitation that we see today. If you'd like to know more about what's actually happening around here, feel free to visit:
https://steemit.chat/channel/steemitabuse
Also - talk with some of the whales around here who have been doing their best to counter the abuses. People like @transisto and @berniesanders, and other users like @pfunk and myself. If you want lists with figures, I'm sure we can compile some...and a few users are already doing it.
@spaminator
@sherlockholmes
Why don't you be more specific? Do you mean increasing the slope of the reward and curation curves?
It could be interesting trying to improve behavior by allowing these curves to pass an array of float couples that represents a polynomial function. For example if you pass [['1', '1']] it's like the current flat reward curve. [['1', '-1']] for square root curation curve. [['0.5', '2'], ['-1', '1']] for f(x) = x²/2 - x and so on. Maybe in that case just doing a % of quadratic + a % of linear.
Would love Steem to be able to offer those choices, but as I have literally told you before, IME it hasn't been found to be safely implementable. However, you're of course free to code it up and propose it to the Witnesses
Maybe you can be more specific as well?
It's one thing to just ignore what I typed in my original comment. It's another thing to go off about "float couples" and "polynomial functions" instead of actually answering my initial questions honestly. You know...the ones about abuse mitigation that had previously existed but now does not.
If you willingly choose to be ignorant about what's been happening since the last hard fork(s), then just refrain from engaging in discussions about it. Send me one of your other team members to honestly talk about it. Drowning the discussion with posturing, deflections, and distractions gets us nowhere.
He is not ignorant. They know what they’re doing.
He is not ignorant. They know what they are doing.
Why not use an extended error function curve (A Half-Gaussian) for rewards, this would allow newer users to be restricted in their voting strength, with moderate users getting more of a vote (those who have published good content and have made enough in order to have a vote), while still keeping the higher-steem users having more of the vote, this would seem like a much better 'In the middle' approach between quadratic and linear reward system.
Hi @ats-david, as a minnow, thanks for sharing your experience. Do you think more blogs that help to point out the worst offenders would be a welcome addition to the community, or frowned upon? e.g. Perhaps weekly lists of users worth flagging, or similar. Thanks
I think this is exactly what we are trying to get away from needing, and exactly what points out we still have many problems that need to be dealt with.
Can someone help explain this to me? I am a new user (joined yesterday) and all i see is a ton of bots and services to pay to promote your posts...not at all what I consider curated content. Before I decide to spend any time or money with SteemIt i'd really like to understand the plan for preventing that and surfacing actual content.
Content curation/filtering is the responsibility of the interface. Steemit or other interfaces can continue to rely on community curation or scale up using machine learning and other techniques to reduce spam and bot interactions.
@ned I'm sure the communities will raise the level of user interaction in both content creation and curation. They will make content so much more discoverable. I'm not sure if the feed will have changes to it too, to maybe include recommended content? Can't wait to get use the new UI/UX! I'm sure interaction levels will significantly increase.
Ned, you sound allot smarter about blockchain tech than you did before :)
Hum... that's all u got?
What about using a captcha? And why wouldn't Steemit want to filter that? Am I the only one who doesn't want to read a bunch of automated bot comments?
Captcha is ineffective for the reason that the underlying infrastructure is publicly accessible. Steemit can be circumvented by any willing body.
That's a good point - but Ned while I seem to have your attention for a minute here - maybe you could help me understand why someone who isn't into the crypto-craze would want to use SteemIt. Right now to me it seems like a big game of programming bots and/or gaming the system to promote posts rather than to surface good content.
One example of a community i read frequently is Hacker News - if something like that could exist on the Steem platform (meaning the quality of the content) and the contributors could get paid for their contributions, then I think Steem could become huge. Right now I guess i'm not sure if i see how that can happen.
Sorry I'm not Ned, and don't know him, and I hope you don't mind my thoughts on your question. You see, I'm not interested in the crypto-craze.
On steemit, I do not need to have hoards of angry bee's following me to take care of any troll issues I might have in other social media. I think the reason for so few trolls on Steemit is that they know what ever they type it will be around forever, and that they can't type, slam someone, then edit and make the other guy look like an idiot. There is a record of the edits. Lack of Trolls is a big plus on Steemit. Another reason, is that even though I am not into the crypto-craze, it is nice to see that my comments on another person's post could be rewarded. Bonus free money even if it is only 0.001 cent or less. It's not the money.
Sometimes, not a lot though, I have my own thoughts to share with people, and it is pretty easy to do, yeah it is hit and miss on how many of the 200,000+ real people, (I saw one blog that there may be upto 10,000+ bots), would see my post. But that does not matter to me, why am I here, for the content, there are so many great writers on here, so many artist, and I do not have to be distracted by the content being obscured by advertisement I am totally not into. No ADS, Great Content. That is why I am here.
Thank you for writing this. I am here for exactly the same reasons. To write about life to share your thoughts or your little adventures, to vote on posts that have real content, to connect with people on the other side of the world, to learn how they live and the difficulties they encounter, etc. etc.
It's great to be part of this community and although it's very nice if people actually read your posts, and write a comment, its primarily the joy of writing itself, a kind of diary for the future. That is why I am here!!
Great response! Thanks for being so detailed and clear.
I actually don't see that much spam or bots and it sure beats the depressing negativity that is a constant in Youtube comments.
Are you threatening me!? My bungole will not wait!
Would you consider making the Steemit post/comment views data publicly available via a JSON RPC for example? This shouldn't take much, and would really help collaborative filtering and other machine learning to improve user experiences.
put
.jsonon the end of any url on steemit.com, like the one you are on right nowOh, wait, that doesn’t do comments.
Those are all already available via JSON-RPC from steemd at https://steemd.steemit.com.
That's useful info (which I didn't know) thanks, but I meant the views data as stored in Steemit's private database.
I'm doing quite a lot of work with the blockchain data, but it doesn't give the user page views which would be really helpful. Anyway, I don't expect it's possible, but thought it worth asking.
Yes, I'm aware of how the process works.
I'm not following. Witness choices is WHY there is a change.
Of course you're not following. You're so disconnected from the actual community you have no clue what's going on. But hey, as long as you're cashing out through your @alpha account via blocktrades, all is well in Steemit land, right?
Pull your head out of your ass and spend some time on the site. Maybe then you'll get a fucking clue.
Sorta gotta agree @ned, you have spent zero time talking to your fan base lately ;-)
I'm back to black soon.
Happy trade friend ned, excuse the abuse I write to you to know if you could help me, I do not want you to feel sorry for me, but I suffered an accident that completely changed my life, the accident left me in a wheelchair and many difficulties to work I am from Venezuela and this country is too bad, I would appreciate it very much if you help me with what you can, thanks and apologies if you bother @nanowins77
Are you going to investigate this or do you want me to explain it for you?
Witness choice is how it happened. Why it happened is all about rationales and justifications.
There's WHY it happened. --> Choice.
And there's WHY it was chosen. ---> Rationales.
I agree. Rationales IMV tend to be very public. Users should go to their highly paid witnesses to understand rationales behind the choices. JMTC.
You know goddamn well that the witnesses have no choice. We've seen STINC flex their muscle multiple times to ensure the witnesses do as they please.
@ned in fact I have a conversation with you where you directly request participation in managing witnesses to ensure you get the result you want.
And it's likely that you're not the only person he approached with such a proposition.
I'm not.
Still got a copy of this lying around?
That's a bit disingenuous. You personally reshuffled the witness cabinet to insure that outcome.I retract this claim.
That didn't happen. First of all nearly all of the top 30 witnesses (meaning the top 20 plus the next 10 who might reasonable by voted in their place) were in favor of it and second of all there has been relatively little reshuffling of the witnesses at all for months (for better or worse). Unlike some other proposals (including ones which Steemit very strongly supported and were not activated), there wasn't even much controversy over this one.
I remember there being some shuffling close to the hard fork time, but maybe I'm thinking of HF 17? Do you remember if there was more reshuffling then?
Anyway I have apologized for the claim, should have thought more before saying that.
I don't specifically remember but that is very possible. HF17 was more controversial (and ultimately rejected/withdrawn).
Sounds about right. Thanks
I don't claim to remember every detail of this past year and a half but I respectfully disagree. I had removed all votes and ordered personnel under contracts at steemit to do the same.
Oh, my mistake. Sorry for the false accusation.
@andrarchy did mention this to me about steemit's personnel under contract, not allowed to vote on witnesses!