@roelandp You may want to try again.
I can now see your post and votes coming in on Steemworld. I clicked your post and it loaded on steemit.com and your rep is not showing 25 anymore. : )
oh they changed condenser then. Anyhow... I am blocked on blockchain level... Maybe you missed softfork228888 - Staying on steem means you accept that at any given day your funds might be blocked.
Oh no I did not miss it.
I saw some lists of people who had been named you were one so I loaded you all up on Steemworld. Yesterday morning first thing, NZ time there was nothing showing on your account at all. Something has changed but I have no clue about the technical side of things.
Interestingly not everyone's accounts have changed. @pumpkin completly blank 25 rep 1 action 5 days ago @cleta Blank 25 rep showing @ashleigh Blank 25 rep @anastacia only showing a couple of things at 6 and 2 days ago rep 25
It looks like the rest of you on the lists can receive votes and some can give flags and votes.
Please come to your senses again and accept that Steem is DONE. It is not even worthy to be called a blockchain anymore.
Many people really appreciate the work you have done for steem in the past years and have tried their best to support you even though you refused to be a witness for 3 years.
Please appeal to get your HIVE and move on. Nothing to be changed or rescued here. You think you are not welcome on HIVE? Wrong.
Appeal and see that the community will give you your coins. You don't have to let your countless hours of hard work and dedication go to waste... You have a choice.
... actions need to be taken in order to stop the milking on this blockchain but there are way more effective and at the same time less harmful possibilities available.
I thought self-milking the chain is all what the people left on Steem ever wanted, so what's the problem?
Weren't downvotes the biggest issue for certain individuals that helped Sun? Removing downvotes is the same as milking Steem, so I do not see a problem with milking it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Hey @steemchiller,
es schaut aus als würde dein Post auf Steemit zensiert. Er ist nicht auffindbar. Auf steempeak kann man zwar den Post selber lesen, aber die Kommentare dazu nicht. (steempeak sagt -1 Comments...)
Ich finde es sehr schade steem so scheitern zu sehen. (Ich halte so etwas für scheitern, vielleicht siehst du das anders)
Ganz liebe Grüße
Schwein
Das war zu erwarten. Die Botschaft wurde übermittelt und muss nicht länger auf der Trending-Seite stehen.
Jetzt werden wir sehen, ob Maßnahmen ergriffen werden. Ich schätze, man wird jetzt an einer 'entschärften' Version arbeiten, damit wir so schnell wie möglich Fortschritte bei der Deeskalation der aktuellen Situation machen können.
Einige Entscheidungen wurden vermutlich nicht in Absprache mit allen wichtigen Investoren getroffen. Ein erfolgreicher Geschäftsmann widerspricht sich nicht selbst so enorm innerhalb so kurzer Zeit, daher war mir klar, dass etwas nicht richtig nach oben vermittelt wurde.
in order to stop the attacks and milking on this blockchain, but there are way more effective and at the same time less harmful possibilities available
Yes. It's called a 'downvote.' A downvote is the tool everyone here can use to help prevent abuse. A tool. Not a belief. Saying you want to combat abuse but don't believe in downvotes is like saying you want to pound nails but don't believe in hammers.
There was no need for a softfork when the tools required for the job have been in existence for four years.
There were people here who were treated poorly for using their downvotes. If I follow this 'nationalistic' narrative I see on Steem so much, you'd call those people 'Hivers.' The ones who were forced to leave Steem. The ones who now, when coming here to visit and socialize often get told to leave.
Block users who are really harming good Steemians and who are only here to troll people
That'll be another disaster. If someone doesn't agree with this comment now, and combine that with the fact I prefer to post my work on Hive, does that make me a troll by default and therefor I should be blocked? Asking a central authority or a panel of censors to define these rules of who gets to go and who gets to stay is a terrible idea.
That list of excluded accounts is an embarrassment to this platform, especially when there are hundreds of other accounts actively milking the reward pool now, and they've been doing it for months if not years. That list PROVES the restrictions put in place had nothing to do with actual reward pool abuse. And it's sad now if someone wants to post on both platforms, they will be labelled a 'milker' and shunned from this community.
Right now, Steem is in a sad state. I have my doubts it can be repaired. Especially now with things like 'nationalism' creeping in. Anyone is welcome on Hive. If they're abusing the reward pool, that work gets downvoted.
Saying you want to combat abuse but don't believe in downvotes is like saying you want to pound nails but don't believe in hammers.
He's all for censorship at the blockchain level to prevent abuse if you read his ramblings. What he craves is centralized governance. In his world your comments simply wouldn't exist because they are not 'good for steem'.
The 0.22.8888 fork was hypocritical and self-destructive, much more harmful than letting a disgruntled ex verbally abuse and milk our money.
The HIVE exclusion list deflated any enthusiasm I may have had for that project, and although it looks attractive as an alternative, the existing problems will still remain - concentration of wealth in a like-minded oligarchy with a small, circular, quid quo pro economy.
It is sad that those who have respected private property throughout have no place to call home. For this to happen, I wonder how much of this drama we don't see as outsiders, considering identities are hidden. For example, I wonder what are the real-life relationships between the blocked accounts and Ned?
Getting a dose of reality on STEEM? All of your statements will fall on deaf ears. These people have no sense of reason. Ditch this disasterous place and move on. Trying to rescue a sinking ship is nothing but futile.
Actually because he got some insider information, most likely, and unvoted just before the Hive announcement (but not before witnesses were running finalized code) his stake's exclusion from the Hive airdrop is being treated as a mistake.
That exclusion list was never to be interpreted as a 'final decision' and those on the list can appeal. Many would have been approved. It just doesn't make sense to fork a chain and include the hostile takeover elements from the previous chain, because that would make the new chain pointless, since the new chain only exists to get away from the hostile takeover. It's common sense. Those excluded just needed to be patient and professional while things get sorted out.
It just doesn't make sense to fork a chain and include the hostile takeover elements from the previous chain
But if we use that argument does it not also justify this recent fork and fucking with people accounts?
There has been a great outpouring of hostility on the steem blockchain by the initiators of Hive.
no not really because the accounts frozen had already (for weeks) disabled their witnesses. There was no threat to Steem here, this softfork is clearly just petty retribution by idiots who cannot see the consequences that will come for their actions.
The point you were making was justifying forking out hostile accounts and depriving them of funds.
I dont think that can be justified ether here or anywhere. My point was that if you justify it in one place for whatever reason you justify it everywhere, even here and I dont want that to be justifiable.
And I am sure you dont want that ether
Those accounts were not forked out. Stick to the facts please and apply logic. Anyone who did not receive the airdrop still has full control of their account on Hive and they're free to use it as they see fit. If they were excluded from the airdrop, they can appeal. Only the accounts actively participating in strengthening a Sybil attack on Steem were excluded. You cannot include that attack on a new chain if your intent is to create a new chain to get away from said Sybil attack. Pretty basic common sense here and with the appeal process, it was handled professionally. It wasn't just a handful of accounts selected out of spite.
But if we use that argument does it not also justify this recent fork and fucking with people accounts?
No. The difference is that the people now milking Steem do not threaten the security of the chain. Those people that voted for Sun actively supported centralization and non-functionality of the chain and the other things that Sun promised, like moving Steem dApps to Tron or moving the coin itself to Tron.
the people now milking Steem do not threaten the security of the chain.
If that is all they were doing nobody would care.
I have spent a lot of time looking at the actions of the accounts concerned and others not mentioned.
I would guess the main objection would be the voting of witnesses then removing the votes a few days later, taking people in and out of the top twenty at will. It is amusing but it also creates instability. I am not sure if their efforts were coordinated but it is possible I guess.
I notice that not all accounts behaving in that manner were targeted. Lucky them.
And I think some who were NOT doing that were targeted. Not good
I'm not sure if we are talking about the same people. With the people milking Steem I mean people who just post to earn as many rewards as possible and then sell them. I am myself doing this in the MILK communtiy.
I would guess the main objection would be the voting of witnesses then removing the votes a few days later
This is what Sun is doing. Only he has the power to remove or add top witnesses at will.
Those feelings are common I see, but unnecessary. Nobody was singled out. The code simply looked at where votes where placed, then excluded those accounts based on the simple fact those accounts at the time were contributing to strengthening a Sybil attack. It had nothing to do with politics or beliefs or any of that nonsense.
I was initially excluded from the Palnet airdrop. My account didn't qualify due to the criteria placed in the code(I was inactive for a time, but had returned), but that code didn't mean someone could look and see that I was in fact active, so I remained calm and waited patiently. Eventually got added. I saw others freaking out, taking it personally, insulting people, writing slanderous posts. Of course some of those folks were not added to the list. That's how the world works I guess.
I respect a lot @drakos, but I'm sure he agree that IF the consensus is that you (& others) should receive HIVE coins, you'll receive it. Otherwise you have a tyranny here.
You obviously don't have a 100% guarantee (I personally would say a 50-60%; but will be less surely if the time passes).
At mid february I thought that JS was a good thing for steem, I was mistaken obviously. It's bad for steem, but good for hive.
This Steem/Hive thing is only bad for both. Hive trading volume is shit, because the only ones buying are Steemians hoping it will work. In reality there are now two communities that are both much smaller than Steem was. You can say the whole community switched to Hive, but it is simply untrue.
A lot of people will never go to Hive, and it will be an uphill battle to gain new users since Steem struggled to do that before. This whole battle is only bad for both communities long term, and is good for clever traders short term.
The smart people know the cost in time and money to rebrand is costly, that's why guys like jrcornel speak politely about Hive but sell Hive for STEEM. You can check, he's powering up SP while powering down HP. Its just logical investing. Steem has years of brand recognition that is not forkable and will cost a shit ton of money and effort to achieve again. In all likelihood, Hive will be in the same boat as whaleshares next year.
I really respect you for the work you have done and for your firm stance in what you believe, but on your posts you have had an enormous Prof of the support you have from 90% of the community... On this post you have plenty of comments of people supporting you and hoping you can como with us to the other platform... But you choose to pay attention to this one single man who speaks against it? It doesn't make much sense to me... Besides, wherever we go there will always be trolls and I'll intended fellows.
Either way, hopefully you can do whatever seems right according to your values and move on. This episode should serve to earn more wisdom to all of us...
I would 100% upvote you if I could :P
Welcome to NEW STEEM !!!
Apparently Mr.Sun took the term blockCHAIN sligtly wrong
So sad!
So I could call you all kinds of nasty names right now and you wouldn't be able to downvote me?
...Only you!..
Ahahhahahhh! 😂
yes go ahead :P
Unfairly Burned Guy!
Festival Organizer!
Wallet Maker!
Hive Turkey!
@roelandp You may want to try again.
I can now see your post and votes coming in on Steemworld. I clicked your post and it loaded on steemit.com and your rep is not showing 25 anymore. : )
oh they changed condenser then. Anyhow... I am blocked on blockchain level... Maybe you missed softfork228888 - Staying on steem means you accept that at any given day your funds might be blocked.
Oh no I did not miss it.
I saw some lists of people who had been named you were one so I loaded you all up on Steemworld. Yesterday morning first thing, NZ time there was nothing showing on your account at all. Something has changed but I have no clue about the technical side of things.
Interestingly not everyone's accounts have changed.
@pumpkin completly blank 25 rep 1 action 5 days ago
@cleta Blank 25 rep showing
@ashleigh Blank 25 rep
@anastacia only showing a couple of things at 6 and 2 days ago rep 25
It looks like the rest of you on the lists can receive votes and some can give flags and votes.
currently, no sense to writing this things at everywhere. The post of @steemchiller is wonderful, Nice. I agree.
#metoo
Please come to your senses again and accept that Steem is DONE. It is not even worthy to be called a blockchain anymore.
Many people really appreciate the work you have done for steem in the past years and have tried their best to support you even though you refused to be a witness for 3 years.
Please appeal to get your HIVE and move on. Nothing to be changed or rescued here. You think you are not welcome on HIVE? Wrong.
Appeal and see that the community will give you your coins. You don't have to let your countless hours of hard work and dedication go to waste... You have a choice.
They are children.
We're all children in God's eyes. :)
I thought self-milking the chain is all what the people left on Steem ever wanted, so what's the problem?
Remove downvotes, Freeze funds because milking?
Weren't downvotes the biggest issue for certain individuals that helped Sun? Removing downvotes is the same as milking Steem, so I do not see a problem with milking it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I'm about to stop looking at anything on Steem, So much dumbfuckery, I can feel by brain cells dying.
Hey @steemchiller,
es schaut aus als würde dein Post auf Steemit zensiert. Er ist nicht auffindbar. Auf steempeak kann man zwar den Post selber lesen, aber die Kommentare dazu nicht. (steempeak sagt -1 Comments...)
Ich finde es sehr schade steem so scheitern zu sehen. (Ich halte so etwas für scheitern, vielleicht siehst du das anders)
Ganz liebe Grüße
Schwein
Das war zu erwarten. Die Botschaft wurde übermittelt und muss nicht länger auf der Trending-Seite stehen.
Jetzt werden wir sehen, ob Maßnahmen ergriffen werden. Ich schätze, man wird jetzt an einer 'entschärften' Version arbeiten, damit wir so schnell wie möglich Fortschritte bei der Deeskalation der aktuellen Situation machen können.
Einige Entscheidungen wurden vermutlich nicht in Absprache mit allen wichtigen Investoren getroffen. Ein erfolgreicher Geschäftsmann widerspricht sich nicht selbst so enorm innerhalb so kurzer Zeit, daher war mir klar, dass etwas nicht richtig nach oben vermittelt wurde.
Yes. It's called a 'downvote.' A downvote is the tool everyone here can use to help prevent abuse. A tool. Not a belief. Saying you want to combat abuse but don't believe in downvotes is like saying you want to pound nails but don't believe in hammers.
There was no need for a softfork when the tools required for the job have been in existence for four years.
There were people here who were treated poorly for using their downvotes. If I follow this 'nationalistic' narrative I see on Steem so much, you'd call those people 'Hivers.' The ones who were forced to leave Steem. The ones who now, when coming here to visit and socialize often get told to leave.
That'll be another disaster. If someone doesn't agree with this comment now, and combine that with the fact I prefer to post my work on Hive, does that make me a troll by default and therefor I should be blocked? Asking a central authority or a panel of censors to define these rules of who gets to go and who gets to stay is a terrible idea.
That list of excluded accounts is an embarrassment to this platform, especially when there are hundreds of other accounts actively milking the reward pool now, and they've been doing it for months if not years. That list PROVES the restrictions put in place had nothing to do with actual reward pool abuse. And it's sad now if someone wants to post on both platforms, they will be labelled a 'milker' and shunned from this community.
Right now, Steem is in a sad state. I have my doubts it can be repaired. Especially now with things like 'nationalism' creeping in. Anyone is welcome on Hive. If they're abusing the reward pool, that work gets downvoted.
He's all for censorship at the blockchain level to prevent abuse if you read his ramblings. What he craves is centralized governance. In his world your comments simply wouldn't exist because they are not 'good for steem'.
I'm well aware of what this place and some of the people stand for now. I don't like it.
Don't worry, if you go back in time, Justin Sun says he'll never do this!
https://twitter.com/justinsuntron/status/1236350365580144640
https://medium.com/@TronFoundation/the-truth-behind-steem-takeover-38179feba963
Those two sentences are probably the only time he's said something truthful in the last year!
Chiller, that s the side you've chosen, enjoy it.
#2 and #3: like censure much? That should put you back in the top20, congrats
The 0.22.8888 fork was hypocritical and self-destructive, much more harmful than letting a disgruntled ex verbally abuse and milk our money.
The HIVE exclusion list deflated any enthusiasm I may have had for that project, and although it looks attractive as an alternative, the existing problems will still remain - concentration of wealth in a like-minded oligarchy with a small, circular, quid quo pro economy.
It is sad that those who have respected private property throughout have no place to call home. For this to happen, I wonder how much of this drama we don't see as outsiders, considering identities are hidden. For example, I wonder what are the real-life relationships between the blocked accounts and Ned?
Getting a dose of reality on STEEM? All of your statements will fall on deaf ears. These people have no sense of reason. Ditch this disasterous place and move on. Trying to rescue a sinking ship is nothing but futile.
Hive didn't give him an airdrop like everyone else.
Actually because he got some insider information, most likely, and unvoted just before the Hive announcement (but not before witnesses were running finalized code) his stake's exclusion from the Hive airdrop is being treated as a mistake.
He can make a proposal and get it this way. I am sure a lot of people will accept this proposal, @steemchiller is a good dude.
Then he should do that :)
That exclusion list was never to be interpreted as a 'final decision' and those on the list can appeal. Many would have been approved. It just doesn't make sense to fork a chain and include the hostile takeover elements from the previous chain, because that would make the new chain pointless, since the new chain only exists to get away from the hostile takeover. It's common sense. Those excluded just needed to be patient and professional while things get sorted out.
But if we use that argument does it not also justify this recent fork and fucking with people accounts?
There has been a great outpouring of hostility on the steem blockchain by the initiators of Hive.
no not really because the accounts frozen had already (for weeks) disabled their witnesses. There was no threat to Steem here, this softfork is clearly just petty retribution by idiots who cannot see the consequences that will come for their actions.
Are they not allowed to use Bitcoin because they have accounts on Hive?
The point you were making was justifying forking out hostile accounts and depriving them of funds.
I dont think that can be justified ether here or anywhere. My point was that if you justify it in one place for whatever reason you justify it everywhere, even here and I dont want that to be justifiable.
And I am sure you dont want that ether
Those accounts were not forked out. Stick to the facts please and apply logic. Anyone who did not receive the airdrop still has full control of their account on Hive and they're free to use it as they see fit. If they were excluded from the airdrop, they can appeal. Only the accounts actively participating in strengthening a Sybil attack on Steem were excluded. You cannot include that attack on a new chain if your intent is to create a new chain to get away from said Sybil attack. Pretty basic common sense here and with the appeal process, it was handled professionally. It wasn't just a handful of accounts selected out of spite.
Stop making so much sense.
Thanks for the reply, it is greatly appreciated.
You said that really well btw
Good points!
No. The difference is that the people now milking Steem do not threaten the security of the chain. Those people that voted for Sun actively supported centralization and non-functionality of the chain and the other things that Sun promised, like moving Steem dApps to Tron or moving the coin itself to Tron.
If that is all they were doing nobody would care.
I have spent a lot of time looking at the actions of the accounts concerned and others not mentioned.
I would guess the main objection would be the voting of witnesses then removing the votes a few days later, taking people in and out of the top twenty at will. It is amusing but it also creates instability. I am not sure if their efforts were coordinated but it is possible I guess.
I notice that not all accounts behaving in that manner were targeted. Lucky them.
And I think some who were NOT doing that were targeted. Not good
I'm not sure if we are talking about the same people. With the people milking Steem I mean people who just post to earn as many rewards as possible and then sell them. I am myself doing this in the MILK communtiy.
This is what Sun is doing. Only he has the power to remove or add top witnesses at will.
Great, I don't see why he hasn't appealed... guess a bad taste in mouth from being on it int he first place.
Those feelings are common I see, but unnecessary. Nobody was singled out. The code simply looked at where votes where placed, then excluded those accounts based on the simple fact those accounts at the time were contributing to strengthening a Sybil attack. It had nothing to do with politics or beliefs or any of that nonsense.
I was initially excluded from the Palnet airdrop. My account didn't qualify due to the criteria placed in the code(I was inactive for a time, but had returned), but that code didn't mean someone could look and see that I was in fact active, so I remained calm and waited patiently. Eventually got added. I saw others freaking out, taking it personally, insulting people, writing slanderous posts. Of course some of those folks were not added to the list. That's how the world works I guess.
He was against Hive and was supporting the sock puppets. Why should he get air dropped?
There you have it. Same witnesses, same shit as before.
I respect a lot @drakos, but I'm sure he agree that IF the consensus is that you (& others) should receive HIVE coins, you'll receive it. Otherwise you have a tyranny here.
You obviously don't have a 100% guarantee (I personally would say a 50-60%; but will be less surely if the time passes).
At mid february I thought that JS was a good thing for steem, I was mistaken obviously. It's bad for steem, but good for hive.
regards
This Steem/Hive thing is only bad for both. Hive trading volume is shit, because the only ones buying are Steemians hoping it will work. In reality there are now two communities that are both much smaller than Steem was. You can say the whole community switched to Hive, but it is simply untrue.
A lot of people will never go to Hive, and it will be an uphill battle to gain new users since Steem struggled to do that before. This whole battle is only bad for both communities long term, and is good for clever traders short term.
The smart people know the cost in time and money to rebrand is costly, that's why guys like jrcornel speak politely about Hive but sell Hive for STEEM. You can check, he's powering up SP while powering down HP. Its just logical investing. Steem has years of brand recognition that is not forkable and will cost a shit ton of money and effort to achieve again. In all likelihood, Hive will be in the same boat as whaleshares next year.
This
Not everybody is going to agree to give you the coins, sure.
But who cares. The community decides, not drakos or any other guy.
I really respect you for the work you have done and for your firm stance in what you believe, but on your posts you have had an enormous Prof of the support you have from 90% of the community... On this post you have plenty of comments of people supporting you and hoping you can como with us to the other platform... But you choose to pay attention to this one single man who speaks against it? It doesn't make much sense to me... Besides, wherever we go there will always be trolls and I'll intended fellows.
Either way, hopefully you can do whatever seems right according to your values and move on. This episode should serve to earn more wisdom to all of us...
Hiveio just posted this:
https://hive.blog/hiveblockchain/@hiveio/community-discussion-updates-hive-airdrop-exclusion-core-developer-meetings
You will get your coins without appeal.