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RE: Hey @Haejin, can we meet halfway? | Let´s have a dialogue, please.
Do you truly believe this is a "do this, do that" post? Did you read it?
Do you feel I´m restricting his behaviour rather than just politely and in a friendly way, asking?
I don´t think you read this post... I strongly encourage you to read it.
Btw: Hello, @knircky´s alt account, it would be nice to have a real argument about my post, not a general rant about what is happening around this subject. Also, if you are goint to upvote your rant that has NOTHING to do with my post, at least be subtle, this brings nothing to the table and, as I said, has nothing to do with my post. Read it.
It's simple. You ask Haejin to only post X amount of post per day and then ask him to perform certain action with his SP.
So yes that is "do this, do that" type of thing to me.
Why?
Explain to me why posting content that people love and getting upvotes is bad. Or how bringing users to steem every day is bad. Or posting content every day several times so people have a reason to use steem many times a day?
In fact I know of no other users that brings valuable content so consistently as he does.
I have a problem with you compromise and thus legitimizing the idea that restricting users is a good idea.
I find your ideas great. Making money and helping minnow is what I try to do here. However I do this out of my own choice.
Explain to me why we want to tell certain how to behave on this platform and why other not.
happy to have dialog.
ps. yes I read ur post.
Thanks for now taking the minutes to actually read the post and actually have a conversation about the post.
Compromise: An agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions.
Thanks, google.
All I am telling Haejiin here is to take a look at the minnows, who like him and I, could get so benefited from vote spreading. I read all the other posts and he states he started earning two cents. Why not help other people who started like him? Why not help people they way he got help?
I am not demanging anything, as I stated at the bottom, anyone can do whatever they want and I am not someone who flags and if he decides to keep going, I will never flag.
It has nothing to do with that. I stated I´m not here to speak about upvotes, posting behaviour or any other stuff. I am here to discuss trying to make what is best for the long term health of the platform. That is spreading the votes, the wealth, the rewards and most importantly, to encourage all those users you speak about. What will happen when those newbies you speak about, get 0.1 cents in their first 25 posts? They will leave.
I don´t bring as many users as Haejin, or maybe as you, but every user i bring, i support him/her until they are able to swim these waters. Is it too much to suggest Haejing to do the same?
I am suggesting a way to end the flag war you speak so much about. This is a solution for the flagging. I am not telling anyone how to behave, I am offering a solution to this matter. The flagging speaks poorly of our platform, a platform where you, him and everyone else spends a lot of time and if it is in a constant war, all those users you support will get nothing out of it.
Again, you are taking this out of context. I´m not telling haejing what to do, I am offering a solution to the problem that started months ago and it yet needs to come to good harbour. A lot of solutions have been brought to the table and due to other circumstances they haven´t worked.
I will just leave you with one thought. If every whale and dolphin posted ten posts a day and voted for themselves, do you think that one week after there would be at least 5 minnows using the platform?
This is not against Haejin, I actually follow him since a long time ago, this is compromising to get our platform to be the best version it can be.
Thanks for the proper argument, I actually like when people bring this to the table, not just ranting.
Question for you: Lets say someone says:
Someone: " I know you killed someone"
You: "No I did not."
Someone: "Lets do a compromise: You go to jail for 30 years instead of getting the death penalty. Nice compromise huh?"
Again censorship is not cool. U are like a nazi declaring a jew evil and convincing them.
A compromise in this case is not ok.
Yes I love your idea of coming up with ways to promote minnows. Go vote for them that's all nice and sweet and I try to do it a bunch.
But making people that post content that brings value to steem post less goes against everyones interest who has a stake in this place.
Just because some people claim that haejin is doing evil stuff, does not make it so. So I am sorry to me u are trying to turn steem into a censorship. that the enemy of the principles that this platform is based on, so u are directly attacking this system in my book.
Again if you own a site u can come up with rules like this. if you are a dictator u can do this.
in a decentralized eco system u cannot. If u can the system does not work anymore.
Cool, then we could just request him to upvote others too, while posting 10+ posts a day. What do you say, @knircky, would you help us in requesting this to @haejin, please?
I know many people whose posts deserve much more than they're earning currently, and I'm sure @haejin could also lend a hand in helping them. Of course, no compulsion.
Disclaimer: I've yet to check haejin's recent outgoing votes, steemreports isn't loading right now. Last I checked was a couple of weeks back and I don't think there were many.
I just asked him to do so. We will see how he responds.
Thank you @knircky, appreciate it!
Change the code so that nobody can use more than X% votes on a single account. Don't tell people what to do. Draw the lines and allow them to do whatever.
They'll make multiple accounts then. That was my initial idea too. :/
That's why you need multi-factor security. Eg: One account can only use 40% VP on a single account. There is a earnings cap based on the number of unique upvoters per week. If it's $5 per upvoter per week, it would require hundreds if not thousands of sock puppet accounts. That's a lot of work and lot easier to spot. You could add a minimum account activity to be considered a unique upvoter.
You can't make things impossible without making things fascist. Just make them hard to execute and easier to spot.
Just the kind of rational thinking I expect from you =)
I have flogged that horse pretty hard, though, and the best response I have received is ridicule. The worst is complete silence, and typically those with their hands in the cookie jar just handwave the idea away.
Either Steemit will do it, or another platform will, in time.
Thanks!
That's a nice idea! I can't think of any loopholes in that, except: if people are that desperate to make money and willing to waste so much of their time.
Good one.
It would be nice to have a resolution to this issue. However due to there being a limited resource (rewards pool) and due to people being people. There will continue to be wars fighting over the rewards pool.
The flagging was started by grumpycat and berniesanders. In my opinion they don't like to see fast upward mobility from minnow to whale. They want to keep their positions of power on the platform. So they started flagging. When berniesanders saw that haejin was well supported by his followers and by rancho, he stirred up a mob to help him out.
Whether some agreement is made or not, either it will break down as it has done before, or the wrath of the mob will be directed at someone else. As long as there is a resource people want they will fight to get it.
I do appreciate that you took a tactful approach toward dialog. It is insane that after almost 3.5 months of this stupid war, there has been very little attempt a dialog.
Thank you @danpaulson.
I'd also like to thank @transisto and @anomadsoul for giving us an idea that this issue can be solved with dialog in a peaceful manner.
I'm not entirely sure about the Bernie not wanting others to succeed part. If that was the case, he wouldn't be interacting with the users that comment in his posts.
I reached out to him once to review a flag I got by mistake for commenting on one of @haejin's post and he obliged, with an apology. I'd say haejin could learn a thing or two about interacting with his followers from that, wouldn't you too Dan?
Things must always come to an end: whether a happy one or not. Let's hope it's the former this time.
Thank you for taking your time out to reply!
Yes, that I think is a fair ask. To be fair, he does upvote others sometime. he votes for me and every once in a while (no im not a minnow).
I think working with people to the benefit of steem is great. And I agree every whale should foster the system and help minnows grow.
Awesome, glad to hear a positive reply!
I agree, he should vote people whom he finds interesting, but helping a few minnows every once in a while is cool too. :)
Hope you convey the same to him if you get a chance.
Cheers!
Ok, so right now the only solution that others are suggesting is to flag him into the ground. That’s within the rules of the system. How do you feel about that in comparison to finding a middle ground?
Yes u are right. Now I don't see a reason to flag him though. In other words I don't see a problem.
But technically everyone has the right to flag whoever one wishes.
That said flagging legit content should not be done and is unethical in my book, but certainly a right any SP holder has.
So I am fine with anyone that feels Haejin makes too much $$ to downvote him. That is after all what downvotes are for. I think it is bad for the platform, as haejin creates original content that is liked by many.
I believe flagging has a few criteria, one of which is uneven distribution of the reward pool - which is the main issue of Haejin's posts.
A huuuuge proportion of the upvote is through Rancho, so I put an alternative solution of Haejin pushing all his Steem to an alt account and starting from there. I think Rancho is set to auto upvote any Haejin post, so it removes that from the equation, and he can carry on as he does now. He could even use Haejin original account purely to resteem his alt account posts.
I'd prefer that he carry on as is, rather than the place devolve into some sort of flagging war. It is very unattractive, especially as it plays out on the sign up page for the site.
And then again. Rancho has the SP and the right to vote on what he want, otherwise steem does not work and we have bigger issues.
This is true, but it is also true for those deciding to use their SP to address what they see as an imbalance in the reward pool.
The end result of all of this is a very public mud slinging match that plays out on the sign up screen to Steem. That can't look good to an external party looking to sign up, and certainly not as an advertisement as to the benefits of SMT.
It is a balancing act. Retaining the freedom to do whatever you want versus the results of that negatively impacting on the platform. No point in just letting things attempt to run themselves if it results in the destruction of the platform. In that instance, we all lose.
I love to see positive and constructive comments. I dream that steemit will be a place for all of us to discuss and analyze anything. and of course no spammers anymore
This comment made me realize something @mfano. i share your dreams, and I think WE ALL should work towards it, and DO NOT let others work on that dreams FOR us, in the physical world we DELEGATE POWER to other people to work for US in achieving this same dream on the physical world. Those people are the so called Politicians!
Most of them are not responsible enough to carry on with SUCH AMOUNT OF POWER in their hands, and they end up succumbing to corruption (money, greed, fear..)
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/responsible
We are getting smart and that is thanks to the internet, we can all know, share, debate, love with each other "strangers" from all over the world
If we get smart and mature enough and bypass all the "funny cat videos" and some "junk" that millions of people are trending /watching right now in their facebook walls, and instead use it for our benefit
instead of asking for goverment, we may be our own goverment
anarchy is nothing without common sense (to me)
You gotta realize that flags are not censorship. The post does not go away when flagged, it just takes one extra mouse click to see... one more click of the mouse... not even close to censorship
I have followed you. :)
Impossible with the kind of content. Asking to consider declining payout or pick 100% Power Up is a better approach. I've been one of the earliest followers and 4 posts is simply impossible. Most of hist followers would agree with me.
I do respect you a great deal because you are the only huge account that took a real neutral position. Most people just acted like complete pricks ruining the experience for the readers.
Most complains come because of the votes of rancho. The best course of action is to make a protocol level modification that put a dynamic cap on earnings based on unique upvoters per week. In that way rancho's effects would be contained in a fair way applicable to everyone under the law of the code.
Don't point fingers at individuals. Code is law. Make a code that is fair for everybody. If you set it in a way that no account can use more that 40% VP on a single account. That's acceptable. That's also applied to Everybody instead of some big player or two.