Why don't I upvote some people's content (anymore), even if I like it?
I like certain types of content on Steem. I have given support to users that post content I value. Some users might have noticed I stopped voting on their posts, even though I used to support them at some point. Some users I have given 100% upvotes to, no longer get any upvotes from me.
Why did I do this? Why did I stop upvoting their posts, even though the content is still what I like and value?
The answer is likely that either they have been using bidbots to buy votes and I finally noticed (buying votes after I cast them where I have to check the past posts to know what they've been doing), or they started to use bidbots to buy votes (I see the bidbots used before I vote). Even if it's not all the time for each post, if I see they've used bidbots now and then, I don't know if they stopped using them and if they will use it on a post I vote for after I give my vote. I don't want to support bidbots, so I stop voting for users whose activity shows they have or are buying votes. I've done this since the first bidbots appeared last year.
The only way for bidbots to not be supported is for users to not use them. And the only way for users to not use them is to realize that they are not beneficial to a platform where content is supposed to be primarily evaluated and ranked by what others value in it, not by buying votes and buying your way up to appear as if your post is actually valued by others.
Some people don't care about the better way for a platform to operate, and only want to get more rewards or more visibility and get more voters by appealing to the bandwagon effect of popularity and riding the curation wave. Some are sharks who just want to exploit whatever method they can to make money and climb up the ladder, rather than earn their way there with time, effort, energy, dedication, determination and persistence.
In order for those people who use bidbots to stop using bidbots, pressure needs to be applied. How to do that? Stop supporting them, stop giving them your votes, stop commenting on their posts, stop feeding them the attention they think they can buy. I don't really support flags, as some of you may know I have issues with this "feature". Removal of support is better than an attack with flags.
Imagine if the only votes people who use bidbots get is from their own vote buying?
Imagine if the only comments people who use bidbots get is from the bidbot comments?
Would they get the message, or would they just keep doing it anyways?
I have been against bidbots since they first appeared in 2017. They are not in alignment with the evaluation of content to be rewarded by others. A platform where people can buy votes to make money or gain popularity is not an honest platform where content is actually being evaluated by others in order to rise.
Here are some of my posts from the past 2 months about bidbots, and some thing to consider about how beneficial they actually are for the platform.
- Reputation Can Be Purchased Through Vote Buying - Does it Matter?
- Do I Like Vote Buying Bots? No (Just to Be Clear)
- Steem is a Free Market, Therefore Buying Votes is Voluntary and Not a Problem (or is it?)
I recently did a witness interview where I spoke negatively against bidbots again. This might be why I lost more witness support and dropped 12 spots in the witness list overnight (as I recently mentioned to @abh12345 on a related post). I've previously mentioned how delegations for profit are an issue for the betterment of the platform as it supports delegating to bidbots when I delegated my power for free for a week while I wasn't using it, and I dropped over 10 spots then as well.
If you want to support a witness who sometimes speaks up on these issues (as opposed to never), please consider voting for me. I'm no tech genius to make apps for the platform, I'm not ROI or investor focused, but I have a goal of trying to share knowledge of how to better ourselves and the world, and want to use Steem to do so. That's how I can help Steem. I have said so in my first month on the platform in 2016, and in my witness declaration post.
I post about topics related to making things better because I want things to get better. I see problems and their cause, and I talk about it. If you value or appreciate what I do and want to support me as a witness, look at the bottom of this post for how to vote for me as a witness.
Thank you for your time and attention. Peace.
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me for more content to come!
My goal is to share knowledge, truth and moral understanding in order to help change the world for the better. If you appreciate and value what I do, please consider supporting me as a Steem Witness by voting for me at the bottom of the Witness page.
I stopped using them because bidbots make crap content rise to the top, and it essentially consolidates power to the wealthy more.
Yes, the wealthy get more wealthy, and they don't even work for the curation rewards. Paid votes and no-work curation rewards, win-win for them...
Sounds good to me! I guess I am the fool for not dropping 50k on buying 50k SP back when it was 1 USD. Coulda quit my job ;)
My content is small but real. I am determined and persistence. I voted you as witness awhile back.I do not like vote bots of any kind. I do like the contest and challenges here on Steemit. I will keep Pushing my way to the top but I will do it fairly.
We can't all be at the top, but we can put in the honest work to climb and get support from those who want to support us, not by our way up. Thanks for being another fair player in the 'game'.
As someone who has been here less than 4 months, there is something I see missing that I feel is even worse when it comes to the bidbots that is overlooked. I have mentioned it a few places now and hope the more i say it the more people will spread this.
Almost all of the people I connected with who were new at the same time are now dead accounts. One of the reasons I believe is tied to these bots.
Unless the bot is paying out more than 200%, it will result in a loss for the buyer of the votes. Newer members believe they need to use these vote bots (especially when top witnesses have scummy videos proclaiming that's how one makes their foundation here) and watch their tiny rewards evaporate as they hand them over to these whale machines. So not only are the rewards minuscule to begin with, but for these newbs it shows them the site is a scam that costs money to post.
I believe this is why there has been no rush to fix the value of SBD, and possibly why it was allowed to grow so high in value. Instead of curating at the normal split between SBD and SP, these whale bots bypass that split and get it all paid upfront in SBD. Then get gravy at the tail end for curation, which is all they would have received to begin with. I have to believe this was all done by design for this reason.
The flip side, those who are using them are not, for the most part, clicking with communities. Robots are not a community, and they will find themselves ultimately always having to pay these bots to be their friends.
As for trending, I have read it was a mess due to whale circle voting before the bots became prevalent. I think it will always be a matter of slowly finding those you identify with, then you will find a lot of others in their comment sections. I don't follow a lot of people and my personal feed is already filled with more posts than I can share upvote love with. Screw trending. Water rises to its own level and once you find the water it all falls into place.
I think anyone who sees what this idea represents will realize quickly as I did that to grow here you invest in those you want to grow strong with. In my case this meant renting SP so I can reward those around me. It won't pay off quickly, but it adds another brick into the communities I am drawn to and maybe a handful of small votes from me will be the deciding factor on someone staying another week, another month etc.
Want to see those bots dry up, set SBD back to what it is supposed to be pegged at. You will see a lot of people pulling their delegations out of these profit bots real quick.
You might be right. They can pump the price up higj by buying a lot of it, then sell it and their bidbot winnings off slowly...
Screw trending is right. I don't know why people obsess over it. Was the same back int he day. I ignored trending as then.
Its my contention that any rewards received not voted to you by others is reward pool abuse.
If bots were about advertising they could require rewards to be declined and still serve that function.
The sellers wouldnt charge less than the curation rewards they would have gotten and could profit even more than they do now.
But dont mention that in certain discords or they will boot you out, i know.
I think we bring back the n(something) and a 500mv vote cap and as dolphins and orcas are born the cap can be raised.
Not a coded cap, either.
One enforced by the community.
Thanks for being in the struggle to free ourselves from the tryranny of the wealthy, and shame on stinc for not standing up for steem.
Interesting options. 500mv enforced by community would require flags to combat, and if the higher ups with the SP in power don't agree then they can get away with it unless there is a concerted effort for ppl to flag those who are high in SP to remove their votes... If the code can change back to n2 (which I dont think is necessarily better), why can't it change to limit the power level to upvote?
You're welcome ;) Good post today on the subject.
Yes, the whale experiment showed that only a few flags would be necessary.
If the noncooperative whales persisted, there would be no other choice.
I looked at the top accounts, only steemit has enough that couldnt be countered by two or three other whales working together.
A hard coded cap would show weakness in the resolve of the community.
If the community decides that its better to muzzle the whales to benefit the newbs, then it needs to make that happen.
Were the community to decide the bots are cancerous, we should flag their users.
Like the vote bots, we will know our success when they have no customers, when folks decide to tilt the math in favor of the havenots, rather than the haves, we will see our success.
I think it is better to not choose an option than to have that option removed.
It looks better on the whales to show restraint than to have their option removed by the code.
Its the same as not commiting a crime because you think that action wrong rather than because you fear punishment.
Thank you!
I think it's good to have open honest communication about the bid bots. I think we would be better off without them or if no one used them. However, the problem has been pointed out over and over and it doesn't seem to change anything. Do you see a solution that we could actually get support for and try to get done? I've seen some pretty good suggestions but nothing that has ever taken hold.
Yes, we can't change the main site features, unless Steemit inc does. If enough people posted about it it would make waves and the consensus would force a change by their hand, or maybe @andrarchy as Steemit's Content Director can help get the Trending page to change and that would change motivations partially? Is that the main thing you are talking about, trending?
What are the exact changes that should be made is the question. What is the solution that we want to rally behind to get rid of the bidbots or make them obsolete. I agree that talking about the issue is a good thing to do, but I see the discussion getting further from the forefront. The market seems to have spoken. It seems that people don't want a paradigm shifting gift economy. It looks like we want the same old selfish bullshit. I hope not, but that's the way it is starting to look to me.
I think the trending page is where the problem is most visible and probably the place to deal with the problem, but I think the bidbots undermine the whole idea of the platform. I guess communities might help fix the problem. My hope is that a community that doesn't use bots becomes the place for the best content and therefore the most successful. However, I'm not convinced that will happen at this point. I don't know what the solution is. If there was a solution that someone was putting forth that made sense to me, I would get behind it.
I would love to hear @andrarcy's thoughts on this. As Content Director, this should be a top priority in my opinion. From recent interviews, it seems that steemit inc. is well aware of the problem. The thing we are missing is a solution that makes sense. I don't think it's that difficult to come up with one, but I haven't been able to come up with something that appeases the majority of the stakeholders at least not a stake weighted majority.
No, don't encourage Steemit to make more rules. Let this site be governed by it's users. Otherwise we will finally become like facebook and youtube. It all started with one little rule.
I don't like bid bots and don't use them (I do use faucets and MSP). I doubt that most of them are profitable, especially after that 25% is taken out. But for the ones that are, you really can't stop people from trying to make a quick buck. Most people won't attract people with a lot of steem (it is always welcome when that does happen) in their post especially as more and more people join the platform, most of the upvotes they will see if about .00-.05 cents. In the end everything is just a points (SP) game and how wisely they play the game, and I guess they see thats how the game works for them. Because the rewards is convertable to money, you are going to have business models built around it whether they are viable or not. These models will have their own supply and demand curve, and plenty of suckers too. I don't think a boycott will achieve much in deterring them. I don't even think abolishing fractional voting would solve the problem either-they will just splinter out. The steem platform has some intrinsic problems, and probably the solution would be to make the yearly return of daily upvotes for a year worse than a risk free investment....and that would probably mean steem needs a few more decimal places and likely a sell off and disinterest in the platform. It is a glitch in the matrix so to speak, and ultimately creates demand and value for steem and hopefully keeps it out of circulation. Do as you wish, but is futile to fight against human nature unless you become a God that can change nature itself....which in this case would be those in absolute control over steemit.
I regret that we only have 7 days to lock in a profit, it would be nice if it was continuous. Sometimes I wonder if with all the automated voting, and services like steemfollower, if people even read what is posted anymore. But if something a few weeks from now, or a few years from now goes viral, there is a lot of profit potential lost because of the 7 day model. I am not sure that the numbers game makes steemit that useful for spreading ideas as it was intended anymore, especially when the quality posts may not be noticed for some time through google queries. Sadly the bots don't want us to include ads and referrals and want to restrict us to the 7 day rule which is also detrimental to viability of steemit.
The main positive, especially regarding controversial or gagged ideas, is that what is on the block chain can't be removed so long as the blockchain exists. Many gag suits these days are to try to obtain orders telling website to remove reviews about people or their businesses, so the block chain is a big f you to the courts/censors and to the petitioners. In many cases where speech is prosecuted criminally, the police tend to produce edited copies of what was spoken. They are quite limited in their ability to do so when it is on the block chain.
LMAO :P
Thanks for your input. It looks like things are fucked and can't be fixed is your conclusion :/
I started using the "nobidbot" tag . over a 4 day period I received 19 flags from resteem bots . I stopped using the tag and the flags stopped . I will start using the tab again and see what happens to confirm my suspicions .
I believe you when you say that you have lost support do to your stand on bidbots . But you did gain my support :)
Its never easy doing the right thing .
hmm interesting, let me know how you get on with the tests.
That would be some idea for analysis? Depending on the result maybe a post.
good idea :D I'll see what comes back from @wolfhart
Your balance is below $0.1. This is your 2nd notification that your account is running low and should be replenished.
I will definitely keep you in the loop .
That's a valiant effort to demonstrate the non use of bidbots. I have not used them. If it comes at the expense of being flagged, I recommend not using them, and just let your content's vote history be the proof that you don't support it, or talk about it in posts if you need to ;) I don't like people getting flagged... but it's up to you :/
There might be a better way besides poking a bear . Have to give it more thought . I am very proud of my vote history .
I have to admit that all those flags did get me down a little if not for those who supported me and I support . Have to say some really good people here . The best !
Steemit seems to be immune to adds from outside but internally there is no way to stop it, except the reactions of well-intentioned Steemians.
Citizens' journalism is being replaced by a nickel machine system to look like a casino.
I'm tired of receiving messages and adds to buy money with Steem.
I would like to receive adds telling me to write quality content.
Maybe there is an idea to start here.:)
Yeah, the only option left is to resist and withdraw support. Ads to pay for quality content is an idea for sure hehe ;)
Great post and I completely agree. Automation of this process is the bane of its existence. We should be on this platform to read peoples content, comment on their posts and expand our knowledge, expertise and grow as individuals. This automation and bot junk is just the deterioration of society and this community before it can get a chance to succeed further. The bid bots are ruining what people have worked hard for. I may really enjoy a particular authors content but when using bid bots it doesn't let me tell them that this one post they created wasn't up to the standards I have or if I disagree with their post the bid bot votes anyway.
I refuse to use these bots even though I am at the bottom of the barrel as far as strength on here, I will not succumb to the ease of automation.
If only that's was the main motivation for everyone, with money afterwards :/
Good on you for not using the bidbots :)
I dislike bid bots.
Not just because of how it messes up the rewards pool, but how it messes up the trending.
The trending is no longer useful. It is almost just a war of bots.
Then, was it ever useful, accept to know when and what whales voted on?
I avoid bitbot voting, mostly by only voting on posts that have low payouts. Usually after a good post gets above $20, i am less inclined to upvote it.
Good to know. The platform is run by SP. It's all about the money to move things. If we want a better trending page, change how it chooses posts, or change the way power gets used to make it not 100% on SP.