But shouldn't we look at the SP being actively used for upvoting? Let's assume the whole 169mln is not being used to upvote, then the bots control 100% of the upvotes.
Is the full 169mln used for upvoting?
Including the 48mln from Steemit?
Oh wow youre very correct here, we are totally forgetting how many SP Whales don't even use their upvote... many of them actually dont even use nearly a fraction of their vote power.... Just like witness votes which are basically only being voted on by a minority of steempower stake holders and its very interesting how many large stale holders dont vote for witness and how many of them don't even care to earn off their SP, many are just wealthy BTC whales with much more BTC than STeem, they all collectively buy more steem during the bull runs, theyre the ones buying up more stake with their extra bitcoin. SO anyway I do see this as an important point, many users who actually have a large stake don't even use their SP to earn off of it!
I counted the top50 and that's about 22.5%. That's close to the 26% I calculated based on different analysis. The 3.5% difference is explained by all the small bots outside the top50 and of course timing/daily differences.
Sigh. this the only relevant number. It's pretty dishonest to be peddling anything else. And yeah. TOO DAMN MUCH. (then again I think anything more than 0% is too much LOL)
You are right, I forgot to include the bots in the total SP calculation bringing my number to 11.111%. Of course, it is slightly higher as not all bots are listed (but they have nothing in comparison for SP) and some vote bots sell votes directly from end users and not via delegation, but still should be a small % change, maybe 1% more?
This is an amazingly low number considering the power they have to get people on trending. I am fighting to survive here and many people who used to give me good upvotes now are silent, powering down, or have delegated their sp elsewhere - maybe to bots.
I recently found out @ned does not vote at all now. This led to another person saying many big accounts do not vote.
I use the little bots only when they are running good in an attempt to raise payouts and reward my real voters. I have hidden about half the bots on steembottracker since they never pay well and I'm not trying to lose money on them. Lately those little bots I use are almost never paying well as people slam huge bids on them.
I upvote comments and used to get many good ones on my posts. This too is fading fast.
I feel really hopeless, but I am trying hard to continue.
@fitinfun, i understand your frustration, i know where you're coming from. Although i must say, you are a bit selfish as well. Bear in mind that you have 200 SP and extra 1000++ you received as delegation. Other don't even have 10% of what you have. How are they surviving with far less? Maybe we appreciate more what we have and from the little we have, to share with others rather than feeling pitty and think of one person only.
We all feel hopeless many times of the day, and many of us are indeed less fortunate than others that say and feel are hopeless. But that's how things are, and the only way to move through is keep on going, and making some good content as much possible we can.
I am really, really sorry to hear that @fitnfun, it must be difficult to have to mentally and physically go through that.. Such news don't make me feel better whether i know the person or not; but may i ask how did you come to be in this situation? If you can not or don't want to talk, i'll understand. Wish you luck @fitnfun .
Many things about my work have fallen apart in the last six weeks or so and I have dropped a lot of balls. I am ulogging about my situation if you want to look at more details. I'm putting all the information on them. Thank you for you support.
Thanks for this data. I also regularly check the blog posting of @penguinpablo to see some of the important data. Also, talking about it having a mention on some of my talking on the video. There are 70 million Steem that are in exchanger and the remaining 20 million Steem are on delegation on bidbots. Everyday I learn 😂
Yeah, this post makes me cry also... what does it mean? Bots are killing steem, thats a fact... What does it mean, a Bot owner writes a post like this one. .. Lets go deep between 1 and 5 cents for steem...
Thats excellent, great to know. Steem is a great blockchain and steemit is a very creative platform that needs to be protected. Thats why I voted for @themarkymark for one of my witness votes.
And for this reason...........
I'm sorry to say it, you may be good at coding, but you have to adjust your math a bit. In order to obtain the percent of SP controlled by bots, you will need to query the whole list of users who have vested Steem, including the bots...
yeah you wouldn't like him when hes angry..... his alter ego comes out
hey but seriously great post @themarkymark upvoted and resteemed its important people know how much SP Bid Bots have and how much DEMAND they generate for SP which is one of the driving forces of a high Steem price of the future (well hah once mt gox dump is over we can have bull rally and $10 steem after hf20 no praaaaablem
But if with less than a quarter of the SP the bid bots control the trending it means that the rest is not being used? otherwise the result would be different, at least that's what I think!
It could be that voting bot votes are more concentrated, or that people vote for what is most visible, so the votes end up going to whatever the voting bots put on trending.
I agree and it's interesting that the figure has apparently dropped from @firedream's analysis a month or so ago which was in the 20's. So, my question is a lot of the bot delegators / speculators and or bot owners now scrambling to cash out. I noticed @isacoin post something about whales powering down.
Thanks for hooking a brotha up with an upvote on my last bid bot critical post btw. Cheers!
... Whats important, for looking at how the trending page is formed is the active SP...
There are just so many idle accounts that dont use their SP at all.
Consider: Ned, Val-a, Val-b.... Only those 3 accounts have 4million SP between them..
So really, the stats listed here are completely meaningless when talking about bot use and the trending page.
Id bet anything that almost 50% if not more of all active SP is held by bots.
Wow. I would have thought it was more than that too. If the bid-bots get above 25% I'd say the platform is in real trouble, because growth should come organically, from honest incentives being offered for quality content, MORE than just purchased off a bid-bot. IMO.
Having said that, while the bid-bot stake may only be 11%, that doesnt mean 89% of Steem voting power goes to incentivizing quality content, and the future of Steemit. Among the 89% steem voting power you have many people who only ever self-vote, and then others who only ever upvote their friends, and I would expect that there is a slim minority of that steem voting power that goes toward upvoting random, unknown, content creators for quality content on Steemit. Sadly.
Nevertheless, we each do our part, and hopefully we push the needle a little closer to good, and a little further from bad.
Having said that, while the bid-bot stake may only be 11%, that doesnt mean 89% of Steem voting power goes to incentivizing quality content, and the future of Steemit.
Fair enough. Seperate topic but worth its own discussion, and as I said, we can all do our part to move us a little bit in the right direction. As you are with this content, and reply. Thanks.
Yes, it is possible, but bid bots are not the problem. The problem is the majority of users putting in zero effort and milking the system without any proper systems in place to prevent it and the ease a user can spam and plagiarize without punishment.
Bid bots offer a fair and transparent promotion system that was only available to the 1% in private underground channels. It's a form of advertisement and promotion that allows users to pay to get their content seen.
Trending was no better before Bid Bots, and in fact, it was more of the same good old boys that had contacts to get enough votes to place them there.
It's a little unfair to claim these are the only bid bots. You can say it's probably 90% of them (giving a 10% margin for error), but even then it's not accounting for all the SP. There could be bots out there with more SP tied up in them than all the bots you've listed so far, and that'll really set things off (not likely though).
It's a good analysis, but it's not fair, so what numbers you take away from this...heed skepticism folks.
This number will change a little when you factor in bots who execute votes via a users account (like MinnowBooster and SteemMarket) but won't be too far off.
There are other bots as well. Community bots for example.
Thanks for posting this. Interesting stats :-)
I think it is an even lower percentage.
The total vesting fund currently contains 192,505,758.709 STEEM
The total STEEM supply is 270,643,578.007 STEEM
21,240,294 / 192,505,758 = 11.0%
21,240,294 / 270,643,578 = 7.85%
So it is 11% of all vested STEEM (powered up) and almost 8% of the total Steem supply.
But shouldn't we look at the SP being actively used for upvoting? Let's assume the whole 169mln is not being used to upvote, then the bots control 100% of the upvotes.
Is the full 169mln used for upvoting?
Including the 48mln from Steemit?
Oh wow youre very correct here, we are totally forgetting how many SP Whales don't even use their upvote... many of them actually dont even use nearly a fraction of their vote power.... Just like witness votes which are basically only being voted on by a minority of steempower stake holders and its very interesting how many large stale holders dont vote for witness and how many of them don't even care to earn off their SP, many are just wealthy BTC whales with much more BTC than STeem, they all collectively buy more steem during the bull runs, theyre the ones buying up more stake with their extra bitcoin. SO anyway I do see this as an important point, many users who actually have a large stake don't even use their SP to earn off of it!
The answer to your question is above 20% according to some pretty good estimation.
https://steemdb.com/labs/rshares?date=2018-06-20
Thanks!
I counted the top50 and that's about 22.5%. That's close to the 26% I calculated based on different analysis. The 3.5% difference is explained by all the small bots outside the top50 and of course timing/daily differences.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@crypto-econom1st/re-themarkymark-how-much-sp-in-tied-up-in-bid-bots-20180628t211333908z
Btw, guess who I saw on spot 50 😀
Sigh. this the only relevant number. It's pretty dishonest to be peddling anything else. And yeah. TOO DAMN MUCH. (then again I think anything more than 0% is too much LOL)
You are right, I forgot to include the bots in the total SP calculation bringing my number to 11.111%. Of course, it is slightly higher as not all bots are listed (but they have nothing in comparison for SP) and some vote bots sell votes directly from end users and not via delegation, but still should be a small % change, maybe 1% more?
This is an amazingly low number considering the power they have to get people on trending. I am fighting to survive here and many people who used to give me good upvotes now are silent, powering down, or have delegated their sp elsewhere - maybe to bots.
I recently found out @ned does not vote at all now. This led to another person saying many big accounts do not vote.
I use the little bots only when they are running good in an attempt to raise payouts and reward my real voters. I have hidden about half the bots on steembottracker since they never pay well and I'm not trying to lose money on them. Lately those little bots I use are almost never paying well as people slam huge bids on them.
I upvote comments and used to get many good ones on my posts. This too is fading fast.
I feel really hopeless, but I am trying hard to continue.
@fitinfun, i understand your frustration, i know where you're coming from. Although i must say, you are a bit selfish as well. Bear in mind that you have 200 SP and extra 1000++ you received as delegation. Other don't even have 10% of what you have. How are they surviving with far less? Maybe we appreciate more what we have and from the little we have, to share with others rather than feeling pitty and think of one person only.
We all feel hopeless many times of the day, and many of us are indeed less fortunate than others that say and feel are hopeless. But that's how things are, and the only way to move through is keep on going, and making some good content as much possible we can.
I leased that delegated sp - no one gave it to me. I'm due to be homeless in a few days, so that should make you feel better.
I am really, really sorry to hear that @fitnfun, it must be difficult to have to mentally and physically go through that.. Such news don't make me feel better whether i know the person or not; but may i ask how did you come to be in this situation? If you can not or don't want to talk, i'll understand. Wish you luck @fitnfun .
Many things about my work have fallen apart in the last six weeks or so and I have dropped a lot of balls. I am ulogging about my situation if you want to look at more details. I'm putting all the information on them. Thank you for you support.
Happy Anniversary! What do i have to do to upvote you as witness @themarkymark ?
You can find it in the menu on the right, where you can vote for any witness (up to 30 total).
I always appreciate how you approach yo present right numbers
Thanks @penguinpablo for the Stats ....so its 11% controlled by bots,fair percentage!
Please watch
Thanks for this data. I also regularly check the blog posting of @penguinpablo to see some of the important data. Also, talking about it having a mention on some of my talking on the video. There are 70 million Steem that are in exchanger and the remaining 20 million Steem are on delegation on bidbots. Everyday I learn 😂
Yeah, this post makes me cry also... what does it mean? Bots are killing steem, thats a fact... What does it mean, a Bot owner writes a post like this one. .. Lets go deep between 1 and 5 cents for steem...
Thats excellent, great to know. Steem is a great blockchain and steemit is a very creative platform that needs to be protected. Thats why I voted for @themarkymark for one of my witness votes.
And for this reason...........
I'm sorry to say it, you may be good at coding, but you have to adjust your math a bit. In order to obtain the percent of SP controlled by bots, you will need to query the whole list of users who have vested Steem, including the bots...
You are right, did it in a rush. Will update it. Thanks.
I am glad I was able to help and not make you upset because of it :)
I'm ok with my mistakes.
Oddly enough, the only way to stop making mistakes is to be okay with them.
yeah you wouldn't like him when hes angry..... his alter ego comes out
hey but seriously great post @themarkymark upvoted and resteemed its important people know how much SP Bid Bots have and how much DEMAND they generate for SP which is one of the driving forces of a high Steem price of the future (well hah once mt gox dump is over we can have bull rally and $10 steem after hf20 no praaaaablem
Watch this
Sorry, if you want to make a point, just state it in a few words, because I can't invest 1h of my life into this one...
Haha, who posts an obscure hour long video with no context and expects anyone to watch it.
But if with less than a quarter of the SP the bid bots control the trending it means that the rest is not being used? otherwise the result would be different, at least that's what I think!
It could be that voting bot votes are more concentrated, or that people vote for what is most visible, so the votes end up going to whatever the voting bots put on trending.
tl;dr - Far too much.
Yes, 12.5 is too much.
I agree and it's interesting that the figure has apparently dropped from @firedream's analysis a month or so ago which was in the 20's. So, my question is a lot of the bot delegators / speculators and or bot owners now scrambling to cash out. I noticed @isacoin post something about whales powering down.
Thanks for hooking a brotha up with an upvote on my last bid bot critical post btw. Cheers!
We are living in interesting times. Some whales are cashing out, while others fund the development of new bidbots like @bid.bot
I keep wanting to write a post about this whole thing, but can't seem to find the time. Thanks, Utopian! :P
... Whats important, for looking at how the trending page is formed is the active SP...
There are just so many idle accounts that dont use their SP at all.
Consider: Ned, Val-a, Val-b.... Only those 3 accounts have 4million SP between them..
So really, the stats listed here are completely meaningless when talking about bot use and the trending page.
Id bet anything that almost 50% if not more of all active SP is held by bots.
Could you please mark it, when linking to jbf?
I clicked on it and have to wash out my eyes with soap now
:/
Lol. I did “idiot”. Is there more than one?
Three are so many idiots here.
And some of them are entertaining.
He. Not.
:))
And come on, 'idiot' that is clickbait on steem;)
_
Yes, youre also one of the steemit idiots...lol
_
Wow. I would have thought it was more than that too. If the bid-bots get above 25% I'd say the platform is in real trouble, because growth should come organically, from honest incentives being offered for quality content, MORE than just purchased off a bid-bot. IMO.
Having said that, while the bid-bot stake may only be 11%, that doesnt mean 89% of Steem voting power goes to incentivizing quality content, and the future of Steemit. Among the 89% steem voting power you have many people who only ever self-vote, and then others who only ever upvote their friends, and I would expect that there is a slim minority of that steem voting power that goes toward upvoting random, unknown, content creators for quality content on Steemit. Sadly.
Nevertheless, we each do our part, and hopefully we push the needle a little closer to good, and a little further from bad.
That problem existed well before bid bots.
Fair enough. Seperate topic but worth its own discussion, and as I said, we can all do our part to move us a little bit in the right direction. As you are with this content, and reply. Thanks.
Is it possible to create a fork that eliminates bid bots? They will literally ruin this platform if left unchecked.
Yes, it is possible, but bid bots are not the problem. The problem is the majority of users putting in zero effort and milking the system without any proper systems in place to prevent it and the ease a user can spam and plagiarize without punishment.
Bid bots offer a fair and transparent promotion system that was only available to the 1% in private underground channels. It's a form of advertisement and promotion that allows users to pay to get their content seen.
Trending was no better before Bid Bots, and in fact, it was more of the same good old boys that had contacts to get enough votes to place them there.
It's a little unfair to claim these are the only bid bots. You can say it's probably 90% of them (giving a 10% margin for error), but even then it's not accounting for all the SP. There could be bots out there with more SP tied up in them than all the bots you've listed so far, and that'll really set things off (not likely though).
It's a good analysis, but it's not fair, so what numbers you take away from this...heed skepticism folks.
There are other bots as well. Community bots for example.