RE: S.O.S! I'm being targeted by a malicious downvote bot!
@pfunk see this is what I was talking about. We already have bots causing problems because the barrier to entry is low and the rewards are high. A bot like this can be built from the tutorials online here in a matter of a couple of minutes and serves no purposes except to harass and annoy.
The solution is to provide better quality tools, knowledge and incentives for people to play fair.
The solution looks a hell of a lot like STEEMBOTS.
https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@williambanks/announce-steembots-com-your-source-for-everything-bot-related-now-hiring
If we were live we would have tools to and incentives to address this such as a bot registry and way to track bots that are gaming the system and swarm into action, by reupvoting.
But I doubt we would even need all of that. You just need to direct the builder's attention away from playing shitty games like this. I can't and won't do it alone though. So it's your choice. You like the status quo then keep it for as long as you can. Or go to STEEMBOTS and help shape the direction of things to come.
@desmonid I upvoted this, hope it helps, also asked @calva to upvote as well since at the moment he's the only bot that lets people tell him who to upvote.
@calva upvote
I read your article about #steembots and I must say I am impressed with your idea!
...plus I am already ready to use your hashtag #steemBotCome
Thanks @desmonid!
Ok so here is what I think has happened and this is just a theory not an accusation.
You hit a hornet's nest.
It is deadly, dirt simple to build one of these upvote bots.
It's only slightly harder to set it to listen for "friends" activities and copy their movements.
@pfunk and many others have been advocating for flagging any bot that is found in the wild., as well as generally using the flagging operation as an "i disagree with you" button. This is dumb because you will be "flagged back".
There are bots and people some who are being "followed" in this manner, some of these people are INSANELY profitable. So people build bots to do whatever the profitable person/bot does. So if the queen bee gets flagged by you and then flags you in retaliation, then EVERYONE of her followers is going to repeat the process...
Why?
Because he/she makes so much money that every move they make must be part of some incredible profit making strategy.
The solution here is to not flag things that aren't spam or abusive and just be really careful what you flag in the future unless you're a whale.
Short term, you should probably create an alt account and wait out this storm. It's likely to run until the swarm gets bored and dissipates. I can promise you though, that I am working on tools to break exactly this kind of AI and make it stop. That may mean finding who the queen bee is and getting her to remove the flag (hence the registry and leash codes). Or it may involve getting large numbers of these bots onto the STEEMBOTS platform so we can send a kill switch signal if crap like this happens again.
Think about it this way though.
If this were a large swarm upvoting you instead, you'd be a millionaire!
Anyways, thanks for your support and I'll keep working on this problem to see what other solutions I can find. In the meantime, who have you flagged for abuse lately whether they deserved it or not?
@hasherfromhell Sounds good to me. Question, have you read the STEEMBOTS posting? If so would you mind putting in a check for #STEEMBOTSTAY & #STEEMBOTCOME ? This way the bot hate is reduced. People who genuinely don't want the bot traffic can simply indicate this desire by adding the leash code and you can know for sure that your bot is wanted when you see the invite code?
I think that will put down a lot of this problem. Some of us like to play with the bots. I know I enjoy them. In the meantime I'm working to find the owners of the "botkiller bots" and telling them the same thing.
I've also asked the devs for a bit of help on this by filing an issue asking them to change the rules a little bit so flagging has a slight monetary cost on the flagger as well so that it's not something you want to bot, unless you want an empty wallet and making it so that flags don't take money away, but simply nix the post all together when the total flag count hits a certain number like 100. But that's 100 users not a single whale with 100 points or whatever.
Remember, we can complain, we can fight or we can fix. I'd rather fix this stuff piece at a time and have the best platform in the world.
@williambanks Im open to help anyone who asks.
I have three cats my bot posts in. Steemit, Steem and Introduceyourself. Im removing the "aboutme" cat and it was only recently added.
The main one is steemit.tips which 8 out of 10 new people were actually UPVOTING. More people than the OP's were upvoting. The full history is right out for people to look at the stats.
The other two just post memes that change regularly. Those are easily muted.
Ministry of information types with a bit of SP weight decides he doesnt like bots, fine. Im good with that. I respect that and I encourage it. This is a two way street though so lets hope others decide to just use the mute feature.
I dont have to bot the whales to make my point, it could be something I know the whales care about. It comes down to perseverance. There are more my type on here than whales I guarantee that. Having a large bankroll tied up into SP != righteous or being automatically correct in all matters steemit.
Thanks for the perspective @williambanks, although that doesnt make me more pro-bot, if anything it makes me feel more like the rewards distributed via bot activity also have a certain illegitimacy or unethical air about them just as the punishments by bots do.
Reply to "@pfunk & @neoxian you are promoting a view that it's ok to abuse the flagging system and use it as your own personal "i disagree" button"
Once again you put words in my mouth. I actually don't think you should use the flag as your "i disagree" button, and if you read my blog, you'd know that.
@pfunk - check this out - your vote weight went to Zero weight on the post about the Auto Upvoting I did:
Not sure if you unvoted or ? but thought I'd point it out as it seems a bit troubling when a new user can throw around so much power.
Mmmm a bot registry... so decentralized. Maybe we just do some kyc on sign up too? Require uploading id's, social security numbers for taxes?
You can kill the host to harm the parasite all you want. Id rather just hit the "mute" button on the bots. Sure beats being the judge jury and executioner like cheetah. A bot that actually spams more text than most of the bots.
Lets not forget, cheetah can whitelist you though..... so thats good I guess. If anything harms steemit, its going to be the gatekeepers who decide to use their whale weight in order to downvote just because they dont like bots.
It's intended to be voluntary. You register the bot you get to play the bot games, you get access to our information, get to learn what we know and explore something more challenging than copy/paste 10 lines of text from 3 month old blog posting.
Your bot starts acting up and someone knows who to talk to.
No we don't upload ids but it is a free leash and dog collar for your pets in case they get lost.
Nevertheless this is a blockchain, there's no way to enforce anything except by changing the economic incentives in such a way it benefits people and you'd have to talk to the devs about that.
One thing I forgot to say in the latest reply to your other thread is that generally, I don't think anybody running a value-taking bot is going to listen to guidelines. Just look at one of your favorite bots, calva, he was stubborn, and continued with his value-taking ways.
@pfunk is calva still not on leash? Have you tried to talking with @calva directly and telling his owner what the beef is? He's one of the very few that actually monitors his bots for complaints and comments.
As for guidelines, they don't need to listen because at present there is no incentive. When STEEMBOTS launches (if we launch), it will be expected you follow the code of conduct or you don't play.
@pfunk https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@calva/calva-update-no-spam-no-downvote