This is why steem needs a blocking feature. one day soon, new chains will spring up and will have this function. Then we will not have to worry about people like @abit running everyone off!
People like @abit focuses way too much on rewards and not enough on the people who help make this platform what it is. He is a bad actor, and is doing more harm than he realizes or even cares.
But hey, continue with the silliness you call an "experiment". You will find yourself a huge bagholder of 3 million steem.
Have a great day!
EDIT: You can downvote SteemTrail all you want. We do not care about your little experiment. Have fun. The community will decide what is best for US...Not you or any of your friends.
Someone who owns a stake in the Steem network has the right to influence the reward pool as they choose. This includes downvoting. Allowing arbitrary blocking of downvoting would not work.
This is a serious flaw. maybe we will see a chain that does it right then.
On such a platform, you may as well not have downvoting if anyone can arbitrarily decide on accounts who they will disallow downvotes from. Furthermore, one of the reasons to buy STEEM Power is to have influence on the reward pool. Allowing vote blocking would erode a part of STEEM Power's utility.
This is pure wrong. FLAGGING is meant to be used on people who are misusing the platform by posting bad, stolen or illegal content. It is ONLY acceptable for us to support people who USE flagging if they use it for the reasons for which flagging was intended. If you were here at the beginning you would know we had flsggin AND downvoting early on and the community came to the conclusion that such downvoting is destructive to steemit and alienates people. This is WHY WE USED FLAGGING -- Because flagging illegal or abusive material is the ONLY form of punishment this platform should offer.
When you play the game of political correctness to give the "right" to downvote quality content, you are walking a thin line to suicide and killing the platform along with yourself.
Hint: we dont need to grow to a billion users tomorrow. Hell we dont need to even focus on the number of users....but should focus instead on the QUALITY of their contributions to steem. In these early days, people should not be surprised if those individuals like myself who have been creating quality content for the community who built the tech that makes sreem possible years before steem was even born...should be expected to receive larger payouts as we have become trusted to use the money to improve the platform by those whales who will upvote us!
its entitlement like this thats the reason we have to get rid of n^2 and make a conscious effort to downvote low quality, pretext content
Also, pretty ridiculous that one user is telling others how theyre allowed to vote.
users were always allowed to downvote whatever they want. "flags" have never existed on the blockchain. As ive said elsewhere, the current design of the UI is akin to ballot tampering. Attempting to stop people from using their vote by misrepresenting what it really is.
then quit i guess. If you think youre entitled to a huge amount of money for pics of ham and don't think anyone ought to have the right to vote against that, its probably not the best platform for you. Obvi, i don't want people to quit, but downvotes are a part of the system (and an essential part at that). If you really dislike the system that much there's a ton of other SM platforms without voting/downvoting.
Certainly, if you think there is enough in the reward pool to pay you a full time salary to post pictures of ham, at least right now that isn't the case... the reward pool and the price of steem won't support it. At least, not without forcing everyone else to go without any significant rewards.
There has been a change in the platform. They updated the wording for 'flagging' to make it more along the lines of a downvote. Users are allowed to flag/downvote over "disagreement over rewards". There is also an open GitHub issue (opened by the Steemit dev team) to change the UI back to 'downvote' instead of flag.
I absolutely agree with you @officialfuzzy On everything. It should report abit for misuse of flags.
I totally agree with you im tired of being downvoted for no reason ! I worked hard on my Steemit Ham Supper tonight only to have it flagged 3 or4 times for absolutely no reason !!! Im already only posting part time because of all of this and of course the smooth couldnt wait to downvote me again FOR QUALITY , ALL ORIGINAL PHOTOS AND CONTENT !!! IM PISSED !!!👎👎👎
Not allowing downvoting would be perfect! We have some who do not use it responsibly. They want the power and do not consider the consequences it has on the platform.
We will never attract the userbase we desire until this is realized. It's unbelievable that some think this is ok and will be a solution to anything. One step forward and then 10 steps backwards. This is evident in our price and user base.
Obviously, the people who have been making these decisions for all of us on the platform, have been wrong. However, they still think they know best. I would suggest getting new people to help make decisions and run "experiments" by. Because this same group is taking us all down with the ship all because they think someone left them in charge.
The reward curves that discount the minnows to nothing and to the whales everything does more harm than @abit can.
He can only affect however many votes he gets in a day, but the reward curves make everybody below xSP irrelevant.
This loses more users, imo.
Then again, it is a misuse of the flagging feature, is it not? I thought flags were for spam or abusive content.
This is mot a flaw. Without free actors, there is no free market. Speak out against it if you disagree.
There are many people in the community that feel strongly that the current distribution of stake is preventing the platform from scaling to billions of users. There is pretty much no incentive for a 'regular user' to buy SP, because even a relatively large investment of a few thousand dollars does not provide practically any influence. Figuring out a way to make the platform more appealing to 'regular users' to invest is really a key issue that needs to be solved if we all want our stake to grow in value.
The million dollar question is how do you achieve this in a way that is fair to the original stakeholders, and does not open the doors to abuse. Here is a post with some thoughts on the subject:
https://steemit.com/steem/@timcliff/whales-can-the-community-buy-out-a-portion-of-your-influence
The initiative that @abit is an agreement with many of the whales to not vote for a period, as an experiment to see what happens when the dolphins+minnows get more influence. It is an experiment. It is not the solution to the problem.
If the experiment helps the community to reach a consensus on what that solution is though, then it will be doing everyone a great service. We need to figure this out / get this right in order for the platform to scale.
This is not a solution. Downvoting represents nothing that is positive for those receiving them. That is the only data that will be retrieved from this.
Ask those receiving downvotes if they think the platform is more appealing.
I received downvote to abit. Now I defollower abit.
Wait for the hardfork before you leave?
IF they make the minnows matter in the math it might get better around here.
Very sorry you had to experience this. This is not how we want to treat our users. My apologies.
I'm not sure with what authority you can say that.
I am so confused and try to understand this move
@personz its called empathy.
Did the same. Good move. More people with guts.
Following you.
The goal is for the whales to participate in the experiment. If whales don't upvote with a large portion of their stake (hence defeating the experiment) then there will be no downvotes.
Not true. They have been downvoting post that did not have any whale votes.
@abit No, I am not a whale yet - though I fully intend to become one. I have invested very large amounts into PURCHASING steempower. It is partially due to people like me, who have been buying steem all through the downturn in prices, that people like you have been able to cash out some of your steem.
I also attended Steemfest AT MY OWN EXPENSE unlike many others who were subsidized for their costs and reimbursed for some of their travel expenses.
I just came back from promoting Steem at Cryptopulco, again at my own expense. I have funded the prize money for contests on steemit in order to generate interest and enthusiasm in our platform. I have promoted other's posts at my own expense.
I have spent hundreds of hours curating and commenting and encouraging on the platform. I have never made use of a bot, but give conscious consideration to all my interactions AFTER HAVING ACTUALLY READ THE POSTS!
I have plowed everything that I have made from curating and posting right back into the platform (except for what I have donated to steemit projects or used to promote others' posts.)
Hence this, probably well-intentioned but definitely ill-conceived, experiment which can produce NO data of value because no parameters were set, is most discouraging to people like me.
DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT I SHOULD REDUCE THE VALUE OF MY VOTE TO SUIT YOUR AGENDA? IS MY AGENDA NOT AT LEAST AS VALUABLE TO THE PLATFORM?
[Nesting]
Respectful.
We all want a better platform.
Just do what you think is right.
Which post?
I think you are a whale.
Please consider lowering your voting weight.
With our efforts, your vote now worth 0.6$. Feel good or not?
Again, not one single mention of how this affects our users. This is a problem.
Based on what I have seen, the lack of communication is really the big problem with this experiment.
@timcliff what is there to communicate? "Hey, I like your post. But due to our experiment, we have to downvote you today and more than likely tomorrow as well. Keep on steeming!"
Anyway. I have productive things to do, so i will let the " Steem(it)Think Tank" get on with more innovative ideas. Peace.
Im tired of being downvoted ! Especially after working very hard on my Ham dinner food blog tonight !!! Now flagged 3 or4 times !! All it does is piss me off !! 👎👎👎
I received my downvote few days ago (we know that the experiment was started days ago, totally random as we could see watching the posts on the trending page) and I felt demotivated and discouraged. I wrote a content asking to whale don't upvote my posts, explaining (in my usual civilized manners) how a "simple (but honest) user" can feel confused after this . Not for the different payout after the downvote (5 dollars don't change my life, fortunately), but because I received it without explanation. Now, I can appreciate that a whale say me that it's running an experiment (ok, I can have my own concerns about it, but I'm only a minnow, no?), but I really hope that it isn't random and I really hope that the users are conscious that it's an experiment. I'm feeling as a lab rat, honestly.
I'm feeling as a lab rat, honestly.--->that's right
We are all lab rats, hehe. This is beta :)
@timcliff, you are right ! In my opinion there are two difference about lab rats in steemit community, mice (minnows) and big rats (whales)...ha..ha..!
Here is a good post for you to read.
https://steemit.com/payout/@timcliff/everything-you-need-to-know-about-potential-payouts-and-flagging-for-new-users
@timcliff I read the post, but,as i wrote in my comment, the problem (for me, sure) isn't the payout that can be down. The problem is to receive a downvote without explaination. As many users here, I have some years of experience on the net and as users in some communities, so I perfectly know how the human factor works. If you hurt me (yes, a downvote without explanation can hurt someone, especially the minnows), I react and the reaction, for a simple user, is usually stay away from the community (I'm not talking about me ^_^). Maybe i'm wrong, but looking around I read that one of the objective of steemit is increase the number of active users, not decrease it. There is a very simple solution against the decrease: communication. I appreciate @abit, because he wrote that it's an experiment, but it would be useful for the users if he (or other for him) explain the plan. I can guess the "why" of this experiment, but you need to understand that the human factor is really important in every community ;)
Vorrei solo sapere quanto dura questo esperimento...io non voglio essere la cavia di nessuno. Questi sono metodi fascisti... Dovevano chiedere prima
One thing that might help is to consider voting for witnesses who are not supporting this.
Change your witness vote and let them all know why.
In the meantime, it is having a positive effect on the price of steem and this is driving the power of votes upward. It just needs marketed completely differently.
You can tell people we're stomping out bot votes. They'll understand that.
Abit is voting, all the time
I'm looking at his voting history in steemd, and it looks like they are all 1% upvotes. These votes essentially put his votes at the same level of stake as dolphins - which is very different than a whale upvoting with a large share of their stake.
abit votes for my comments which is pretty much the only decent reward(s) i make now. I have to disagree with you on this. He is trying a different approach, its worth a try isn't it? It's only for 1 voting period to s. Its just interesting to see what it's like in a world without whales for a day.
No. I do not think it is worth a try. I'm open for almost any idea, however, when it comes to our end users and retention i would never agree to something like this.
@solarguy. If only you could also feel what it was like for 3 years as i worked nearly free of charge to get where i could be trusted and upvoted by whales for my efforts.
All this experiment does is teaches you about the feeling of earning rewards you havent worked for to the degree that others have...and does it at the expense of those who have proven themselves time and time again to some people who finally have some stake in a project they limely sacrificed a great deal for.
New users seem to forget this. Imagine if you had to work and post to steem for over 3 years, working a night job and barely seeing your family so you could make this possible. Then imagine someone who is new to the platform says "i think i deserve the respect and trust THAT GUY has! But i can only have it if it is TAKEN AWAY from him!!"
All benefit it looks like from the minnows side.
Why not just change the f*g N^2 rewards curve???
Jesus this isnt rocket science.
I do know the feeling of working hard and not getting to see my loved ones or do things that bring joy to my life.
I also know what it is like to spend days writing a great post to have it earn hefty rewards and also make less than a nickel.
U see i spoke out about what i saw was happening a couple months ago and pissed off every guild and whale and never had decent successful rewards wise post since. Not in 2 months. Though my following continued grow and my comments section was still a hit.
I still write about the same things and for a while after i still put in the effort.
Steemit is about politics more than content or its quality.
This experiment will prove that and so i can see why so many people are oppse it.
At the end of the day its just for a day or two. If this experiment is so bad then after its finished things will go back normal.
If the experiment has merit maybe it will change some users habits.
This isnt just to make newbies wanting a slice of the pie who just got here.
I dedicated my life to steemit. I welcomed hundreds hundreds, i gave advice and pointed people in the right direction. I promoted my fellow authors on and off the platform. I have over 470 followers. Most of my posts have very active comment sections.
I fit the description of an author who is well liked and appreciated by many here but it does not reflect in my rewards because the few people who can give me them dont like me for something i said months ago. I was not wrong this experiment will prove it.
I did nothing so bad other than expose an issue that is clearly being missed by many.
I too sacrificed my time and energy for this place. Not just the people in favour or in power
The problem is that if it were a PROPER experiment people would not be blindsided and left out (unless they are meant to be the control). What this was was nothing more tham a half assrd attempt at what? Changing the system for 2 days?
Nothing in have seen even tells me what SPECIFIC datapoints they are trying to tease from the community :P
Steem is not 3 years old, only about a year, what are you referring to here?
You don't earn rewards, they are given to you according to votes. Working hard does not equal high payout. Quality is subjective. People are free to use their votes however they want.
It's not rocket science, you're right.
Quality is very subjective indeed. I guess all social networks - including steem have the problem how good content is measured. Steem has tried with Higher Quality = Sum of (Votes * Power of Vote). So far so good. Now the value of the post ist distributed back to the voters, those with more power get back more part of the treasure.
This leads to an expotentional growth of those which are :
started earlier than others, and thus posted more and longer.
But new people can't rally up? As they always will only get some very tiny fractions from the value.
So some could even work hard, but get not much from it.
Also it creates a "class" of rich people, medium class and working poor. Is that the social network some wants to create?
Pretty much everyone I've talked to wants this to be done.
I'm sorry, I don't agree with you, any person for steeimt experiments should not receive criticism, steemit is open, why do you think @abit 's experiment is to earn more money, you're here. What do you want ? Steeimt from the highest point to an all-time low, this proves that the current steemit mode is not in the right orbit, you do not consider these issues, but always accuse others of experiment, I don't know why.
Thanks, for standing up "for the Right to Party"* or to "Post" (a joke from another steemian friend) freely, and not being harassed or used like objects.
We need people to forget the fear of losing reputation or Steem because someone decides to play with it just like it is a nickel machine, whose casino chips will have a zero value one day outside the casino.
And notice that the users are just numbers in a guinea pig experiments contest. We are not people anymore.
This system is censorship-resistant from the inside but not from the inside.
Finishing with 2 quotes from my posts
"The 1% of society rulers (minority) that are equalitarian only between them, but at the cost of the exploited 99% (majority) that are considered objects (slaves) and shows the influence of object possessions in the relation of Man-to-Man, and how paternalistic structures of things can "treat men as objects"."
"Steemit can be a model of the future in the blockchain for a more just society, because for me the real meaning of Justice is Equality and not the point of view of the Power as it is today."
Cant disagree...perfectly stated imho. Abit has really stunned me with this ridiculousness.
This is a scam, his flags are not getting global rewards lower, they are just getting the platform less attractive and the Steem lower.