#trending #153
View this post on Hive: #trending #153
7 years ago in #trending by themarkymark (78)
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#trending #153
View this post on Hive: #trending #153
So you think it is absolutely right to place this post of yours on that #trending to make or show points? Being a witness you didn't find any other better option??
What kind of message are you guys passing to new users by doing so? IMO this kind of joke only increase the abuse and spam.
You are just spreading false messages to the new users or the users who don't have any idea about your so-called sarcasm may be.
On the other hand you are also the same guy who runs some big bots which are responsible for that trending shit.
This only hampers those innocent people and still, there's lots of profit for you guys. You teach/pass this wrong message to innocent users. And when they do the same thing, you call them abuser, remove your bot votes from their posts, even downvote them... Repeat.
Why not to be that change and at least try to spread the good message, as a witness?
Trending is the best way to get a discussion going. As a witness, I have no special power to change anything more than anyone else. I can bring it up until I am blue in the face in the back channels, but it doesn't change it.
What false message and how does it differ from the false message of all the posts that are there now, was there yesterday, the day before, and 6 months ago? New users follow, vote, and resteem on these posts on a daily basis following the false messages laid out by the established.
My bot can't trend shit, I have actively put a cap that is low enough you can't get on trending, it is the aggregate of the 50+ bots that exist and grows on a daily basis. I actively monitor and blacklist people posting shit (as long as I have something actionable like spam, plagiarism, content theft, fraud, scam).
If you yourself take it that way then there's no meaning of complaining about it, others might want that slot for the same purpose- discussion/visibility.
Again when you can't change your own mindset how could you expect the change from others? Or you just didn't read that bold sentence I put at last of my comment?-"Why not to be that change and at least try to spread the good message, "
Yes there many bots responsible for this and you can't simply deny the fact that your bots are also the part of them and hold huge contribution.
And please take my thoughts/views as professional and not personal. I commented here because you made this post not others.So I think I am right to point out about you than other here in your post.
happy that your post is trending one
I agree with this. I'd like to see some genuine professionalism. This stuff is getting old already. Embarrassing.
I just hope his next post isn't a whiny rebuttal, complete with screenshots of the conversation here where things are taken out of context. Another long list of account names might show up while he attempts to show the "good" he's doing for the community by blacklisting people. Maybe some signs of frustration and a touch of the victim card. I'm not saying he will do that, but I've seen it in the past. I'd prefer to see something good come out of this.
Have a nice day.
Generally, I try to keep myself away from these kinds of stuff/conversation because I have seen many accounts damaged although they had genuine/honest valid points unfortunately all against some big users. But sometimes it's too much, especially when I see the same users who were pretending(I feel this better suitable seeing the actions) to stop such activities and always talk/complain about the improvement of the community and such stuff.
So when I feel to involve in this type of discussion I have to be prepared for some turbulent responses and bunch of flags.
Just As I said.
I was already threatened. I'm not sure why a witness would do that on a blockchain near the top of a trending page and for all to see. It's unfortunate. Doesn't make much sense. Talking is so much easier.
Edit: I should add, later on, we both did end up talking out our problems. I have to give him credit for that.
Glad to know that, many things can be solved just having some clear conversation here, but it's sad most of them prefer the other way...
One of the people directly responsible for the trash on the front page, complains about trash by adding more trash.. That makes perfect sense :O
lol
My bot cannot trend a post, it is capped to prevent such a thing.
that's why I said "one of the people". It's not a coincidence that almost all the trending garbate posts have an upvote by buildawhale, including this one.
The majority of trending doesn't use or need @buildawhale or any bot. The ones you are referring to are the ones that break out of the system. If it is something that falls under a category I can do something about, I will prevent that from happening.
Every platform out there (Google, Bing, Facebook, Twitter, even Amazon) has a way to buy advertising to increase your visibility by being on the front page.
Everyone here has a way to collectively decide what shouldn't be there.
Ah. Okay. I read through a substantial amount of comments on this post, and while I instantly understood that this was meant to be a jab at trending, I'm still trying to comprehend what you were trying to accomplish with it.
I imagine that you probably got enough shit for it that you won't do something similar again, but just in case you weren't absolutely sure this was a terrible idea, I wanted to bring that point home.
Admittedly I might be a little irritated with your assumption that an early start on the platform means that we had an easier time making money. When steem was worth, oh I don't know, fifteen cents? And none of us could be sure it would ever be worth something substantial, but we kept going anyway? I'll tell you one thing that has changed since then-- there were no upvote bots. There was no vote buying period.
I also agree.
I even wonder how many new users are there?
And then I'm not referring to the number of subscribers, but the number of newbies that are active after 1 month?
Hey thank for the comment, as a new user I was a little confused about the used #trending, as a photo fan I really like the picture.
This post was actually more useful than I thought, It helped to reveal the people who care and have the right mindset like @transisto and @sjennon :)
Well, I posted a solution for your trash problem but it seems nobody cares for it (yet):
https://steemit.com/utopian-io/@steemhq/how-to-make-steem-great-again-the-exponential-author-reward-method
Gotta upvote this, just to bring it to everybodys attention/discussion.
The changes that were introduced with HF19 gave rise to a new pay for exposure economy. Community approval can now be bypassed easily and what we see on trending is the result of this. You are contributing to this economy with your own service - so what is the point you want to make with this post exactly?
Actually, most of trending is Adsactly, Jerry Banfield, Haejin, Utopian, Sweetssj, none of which is the result of Bid Bots (yes I know Jerry is a bid bot, but his trail is more than enough to trend him). The majority of the posts on trending are the same authors and the result of vote circles and personal steem power and nothing to do with bid bots.
Bid bots are promotional tools, aka advertising. Like every platform on the Internet (Google, Twitter, Facebook, Yahoo, Bing, Etc.) those who pay are promoted and have much more visibility.
The ones who abuse it (with spam, scams, fraud, plagiarism, and some other form of abuse) I address by blacklisting, something other bots don't actively do.
The amount of posts in trending as a result of bid bots is a small percentage, and even of those, they would have been on trending without it as they already have hundreds of dollars worth of votes.
I have no problem if someone uses a bid bot to boost to trending, my bot or another. That's how every media platform in the world works, pay for promotion, get seen. What I do have a problem the amount of garbage and spam on this platform (80-90%?) and how established vote circles dominate trending regardless of quality.
Proof of brain here is totally broken, so saying that is what the platform is about and how it should work is a moot argument as unless your cute, pay off people, have enough steem power to create a big voting circle, you won't get noticed in all the noise ( remember that 80-90%).
No need to defend your service against me. I questioned the intent of your post, not the service that you are providing. I accept the existence of bid bots and I can even see reasonable use cases for them. Still, bid bots add another vector to bypass community approval (or proof of brain if you wish) and thus I find it strange if you complain about an outcome that you are actually enabling.
True, as of now, voting circles and other sort of deals extract significantly more from the reward pool compared to the aggregate of bid bots.
Thanks for your reply!
When I started @buildawhale there were very few bots, and now there are a ridiculous amount of bots and more coming daily.
This the result of a lot of things, but I think a lot of it has to do with low morale and the fact this is seen as the only profitable action on Steem right now.
As for why I did the post, mainly because I just snapped. Got sick of the huge voting circles getting free passes to trending, while exploiting the system. I knew people would bring up the bot angle and would be the primary focus, but it really isn't even remotely close the root issues going on.
I wanted to start a discussion, and unless I am on trending, I don't have the influence to do that. So like any good marketer, I bought it.
I make sure I didn't overdo it, I could have easily put it at #1 spot on trending for days, but I made sure it was high enough to be seen but not high enough to stick.
Well, I think those who followed you in doing what you started doing early on shouldn't be blamed for having a low morale. Under current circumstances bid bot providers are doing what is economically sound to do. If enough of the stake here is not happy with the outcome of this economy then the system parameters have to be changed. To repeat what I said in another comment, counting on morale or community-oriented behaviour is an expectation that will always be disappointed when there is money to be earned.
As for the root cause, to me it's the introduction of delegations and linear rewards that marginalized community approval as a factor for reward allocation. And both, the bid bot economy and voting circles have been fueled by these changes. Yes, voting circles have existed before, yet were a phenomenon that required whale participation. Now we have these circles throughout the entire stake-holder hierarchy.
So if changes are introduced that counter voting circles you will probably erode the economic viability of bid bots, too.
What I meant about low morale, is many people are discouraged and jaded right now in general with how things are and where they are going.
The SBD pump has also dramatically changed the game and how people interact with the platform.
You're spot on, @shaka. And that's why it's also not suprising that the author doesn't answer your question :-) Wie sagt man so schön: wer im Glashaus sitzt, sollte nicht mit Steinen werfen...
Hi Marly,
just to clarify my stance, I don´t criticize anyone for providing a service that is a logical consequence of the economic changes that were introduced with HF19 (delegations and linear rewards). As sad as it may be, bid bots won't go away as long as no systematic changes are (re)introduced. Counting on unselfish or community oriented behaviour is an understandable expectation, yet an expectation that inevitably results in disappointment whenever money is involved. So what we observe is a matter of how the incentives are currently set.
Still, it remains elusive to me which message @themarkymark aims to convey with this post. To me it seems as if an ad broker would complain that there are to many ads around. It´s his business and he is free to run it. However, complaining about the logical outcome of this business is weird (assuming now, that the message of this post is some sort of a complaint).
Cheers!
Totally got it and support your point of view!
I believe bid bots are completely against the decentralized belief. I'd like to quote a tweed from Dan Larimer to underline that:
It's definitely a design problem in first instance. Apparently we accept that there is no economical circle anymore - like the one that was designed when Steem was launched. Now money just flows into one direction - from the bottom to the top. Bid bots are not designed to support minnows, they're designed to take away their money.
I'm pretty curious if SMTs will be able to fix these fundamental issues.
My response above.
Actually, I just did respond when I had a chance to catch up, but thanks stopping by.
PS: Don't forget that this is a troll-free zone
Probably we should say thanks to these guys for our Trending.
In this case they made 95% of payout
They make our Trending Page, they decide for all the Steemians, which of the contributions bring the most value to the community. Unfortunately, real human votes are no longer needed to determine the value of content.
Actually, my current stance on bid bots is neutral. But I find it odd when someone who fuels the pay for exposure economy bemoans it's inevitable consequences.
BTW, this analysis here may interest you. According to this estimation, roughly one sixth of the daily reward pool is currently allocated by bid bots.
I would understand if this meme was placed by some of the newcomers as a sign of utter despondency and disappointment.
But on the part of the bid-bot owner and Steemit delegate, who has a reputation and a rather large SteemPower, it looks at best as a recognition of his own helplessness / unwillingness to do something, and at worst - as a mockery of all Steemians. IMO
I would exclude the worst case assumption, but otherwise, I remain puzzled over the intent of this post.
Absolutely. I'd say the message is self evident, like the author trying to pull a Marcel Duchamp. And I'd call it art too if it weren't for the blatant mocking of Steemit users. I'm try to learn from those things a lesson about whales toxicity
I see the hidden message behind this..
“American cities are like badger holes, ringed with trash--all of them--surrounded by piles of wrecked and rusting automobiles, and almost smothered in rubbish. Everything we use comes in boxes, cartons, bins, the so-called packaging we love so much. The mountain of things we throw away are much greater than the things we use.”
― John Steinbeck.
I've discovered the image presented here today was not a photograph taken by @themarkymark. Since @themarkymark failed to provide a link to the source of this image and indicate that it is not his photograph, I'm left with no other option but to flag the post.
I get the joke, but adding more garbage to the garbage pile that is the trending page is a counterproductive approach to cleaning it up. I think you can do better, @themarkymark.
Have a nice day.
Hey nonameslefttouse,
did you just flag the person that just wanted to make a point for others to see (and lost money by doing so), but you are leaving people like Haejin, who is making 10 per day to amass as much rewards as possible, without any flag?
Why are you flagging the good guys? :(
So you think this is absolutely right?
Well, at least it started the conversation, didn't it? Now more people understand the problem.
This isn't first or second time. It's the same old story and this discussion will lead to nowhere just like previous ones.
And I think only people who have already understood the problem are taking part in the discussion and for others, it's just another trending post, go through the comments. it won't take anyone longer than a month to understand the situation here.
Have a good time.
Personally, I think everyone should step up and lead by example. I'd like to see some professionalism around here. Actions speak louder than words. I don't care about this point he's trying to make. Nearly all of us make the same goddamn point everyday. What is making the same goddamn point every single day going to prove? Nothing. It's a waste of time. We all know it's garbage, so do something about it. If I stand beside a garbage can, then point at the garbage can and say, "That's garbage," do I sound like a genius or a fucking moron?
It’s a CC0 image which means no attribution needed commercial or personal use.
If you are going to flag for plagiarism or image theft do some research. I will be returning the favor five fold.
Thanks for pointing that out, after. You could mention that in the post.
The flag stays. I disagree with rewards. I think you can do better. It's not hard to find an image on the internet. This post lacks effort and I feel it doesn't deserve the current $254.35 worth of rewards.
Some people here work incredibly hard and stand no chance to earn something like that. I believe you can do better. I suggest you lead by example.
Have a nice day.
The post isn’t making jack as it will posted at a loss to make a point. There is no requirement to attribute CC0 it is the entire point of the license. You should do some research before flagging for theft.
Disagreement on rewards is fine but that’s not what you claimed. If you think I will profit off this post you are mistaken.
The post is far more than the image. It’s just to make a point.
I didn't accuse you of being a thief. That's on the record.
We cleared that up. I considered removing the flag but decided to leave it for a different reason. That's on the record.
Like I said, I get the joke.
Your potential profit or loss doesn't concern me. I don't care. I know how this place works.
It's nothing personal. I'm making a point right now as well. We can all make a point at some point in our lives. I don't think this particular instance of making a point is worth more than nearly all of the other instances of making a point, therefore the flag stays because I disagree with rewards.
"I've discovered the image presented here today was not a photograph taken by @themarkymark. Since @themarkymark failed to provide a link to the source of this image and indicate that it is not his photograph, I'm left with no other option but to flag the post."
I'm pretty sure that's what that says. Yet you did no research at all. If I blacklisted everyone I knew was a plagiarist or stole images but couldn't prove I'd blacklist half of Steemit. That's irresponsible.
Flag for disagreement, no problems, I'm going to do some disagreeing myself.
I right clicked on the image above, did a quick search in google, found many instances of the image and reported my findings. In nowhere in anything I said were you accused of being a thief. It is standard practice on Steemit to provide sources. Majority of people do it. You eventually cleared that up with everyone, I was satisfied with that. That's all on the record. No amount of spinning what I said or taking things out of context can change that.
Since it seems you're threatening me and since I didn't come here to act petty and get in a flag war with someone who feels like pouting over a $4 flag and since I'm sensing bully tactics, I'll now remove my flag out of fear.
Have a nice day.
Second result.
(A well known, CC0 site used by many Steemians)
I'm fine with flagging for disagreement with rewards, I wouldn't have said a thing. I've been flagged many times before for standing up what I believe in, and I'm sure there will be plenty more. In fact I totally expected to be flagged on this post.
I spend a lot of time daily looking through spam and abuse to prevent it being rewarded by my bots. If I flagged/blacklisted without doing research, that would be extremely irresponsible and that's what I have a problem with.
Hell, half the time I know it is stolen/plagiarized but I don't flag or blacklist because I have no proof.
If you checked and just didn't notice, hey we all make mistakes, but I do have a problem with someone flagging for something without doing proper due diligence.
Dear,nonameslefttouse I'm not joining you.!!
image theft is not an endless result, we share it on our pages with quotes or samples from some places. Those who think like you or those who write such comments by jealousy say that they do not have any serious information about this issue. They write comments because they do not have any serious information about this issue.
@themarkymark
Who's jealous? What?
I think something got lost in translation here. It's okay. It happens.
Oh! If you think I'm jealous of rewards, you'd be mistaken. This post isn't here because it is popular. The author purchased votes and bought this slot. It's not here because people liked it. You've been misled by the author. Welcome to Steemit!
Trash like that is always a bad thing to see. We should always take better care of our planet and clean it up so we have a clean future, my thoughts !! :))
Cleanness is close to Godliness. So keep our environment clean
Amazing work @TheMarkyMark, everything you post is always the best.
#Upvote #follow #swagmonster365backflip
There are a lot of issues on this platform right now. Trending is one big issues that needs to be brought up. Some have and will continue to make a point of this problem. From bernie to transisto to the minnows who are struggling. Some will continue to purge off the hard working content providers by posting crap (IE: crypto charts 10 times a day) and getting circle jerked to the top. Some of these issues will work them selves out over time. I think @themarkymark had the right intention in this post. He didn't do it to make money. He wants to draw attention to an issue. Sometimes it takes throwing your self out there to do this.
I know themarkymark reasonably well and I feel that while he is catching a lot of grief for this post, think about the fact that he is drawing attention to the issue. He writes some damn good informational posts that many have benefited from. Understand the source.
Some try to take advantage while others try and do good for the community. This is one attempt at good, whether you feel it was successful or not.
What I find interesting is many whales only care about trending, and could care less about rewards and reward pool abuse. Many will only react or even be upset if trending is compromised but could care less if someone walks away with thousands/day posting garbage.
Aside from comments, I haven't posted original content to this platform in over two months. Keep up the good fight, though it seems few with sizeable influence are doing so. I don't know how SMTs are going to take the Steem blockchain to the next level when its very rewards distribution model is systemically flawed. Alas, the warning from the Steem White Paper resonates now more than ever before: "Any imbalance in the give and take within a community is unsustainable. Eventually the givers grow tired of supporting the takers and disengage from the community."
I know three people who joined this year and have now left because of the imbalance you speak of. A lot of new comers are seeing this system as a stacked deck and just leave.
It is unfortunate. Quality oversight is terribly lacking on this platform.