You are viewing a single comment's thread from:
RE: How Much of the Rewards Pool is Paid out by BitBots Votes V's Organic Votes
Hi @paulag, I was recently looking into net SBD transfers to a subset of bitbots for another analysis and got numbers at a completely different order of magnitude. I'm not 100% sure that my numbers are correct, but 6k SBD votes from bidbots for the full month also seems surprisingly low to me.
This is what I got: The amount of SBD sent to any of
["booster", "postpromoter", "upme", "boomerang", "upmyvote",
"jerrybanfield", "buildawhale", "appreciator", "sneaky-ninja",
"pushup", "aksdwi", 'randowhale', 'smartsteem', 'promobot',
'therising', 'rocky1']
between Dec.. 1st and Mar. 1st which was not refunded. (Operator chashouts and delegator payouts excluded)
Even if the bidbot votes are not profitable, this would make an order of magnitude of 300k SBD to these bots in Feb.
yep cos I had ran part of the report for 2017. it is now updated
that looks roughly consistent now, great work!
You're correct!
6k SBD is closer to the daily upvotes by the top 11 bid bots, not for the whole period.
updated, they were ran for 2017 instead of 2018
She did add a note that she took numbers from 2017. I guess, back then bots were that small. I recently wrote an article asking similar questions as you and I came to the conclusion that they take out at least 10% of the reward pool. Of that 90% ends up in holding accounts or goes to bittrex. Quite a rip-off, if you ask me...
What's your opinion to that, bernie?
thank you @doodlebear I have now updated.
Does that mean the bots mentioned by @crokkon are part of the organic upvoting? That would be a devastating blow to the "proof of brain" concept, since it's basically circumventing the importance of upvotes by normal users (who provide the brain..).
Can you do another analysis of that kind with all the "organic" upvote bots? Ideally with where their profits go. I have the impression their power is way too big on Steemit...
Almost all bots in my list are part of her's as well. So they don't count as "organic". A tricky aspect is however "sell your vote" from MB/smartsteem/booster and maybe others. My data only partly counts those and I think this appears as "organic" in @paulag's approach. Can't tell if this makes a significant difference.
edit: corrected - minnowboster and randowhale are part of my list, but not in paulag's
I also have some serious consideration of whether we ought to be trying to come up with a way to filter out "curation trains" of followed auto voting, but I haven't come up with a really good way of detecting that sort of event. My gut says that some sort of clustered timeseries would be about the only way to determine or detect a relationship between events like that, but it's hard to say for sure.
The system does not make it very easy to analyze votes by value and aggregate, so this is always a lot of fun.
That would be an interesting task: Creating a filter that corrects the upvote bot bias. If you are interested in developing such a filter, you should contact @greer184 who is running @q-filter, where he works on alternative ways of filtering content.
I've actually been trying to implement a filter that would simply bias presentation in favor of things that I have personally voted up in order to provide an additional form of weighting and presenting the content available on the blockchain, but that's been going slowly at best. I know that any kind of filtering is a big task.
In this case, because up vote bots are nearly impossible to detect if they're not on the big listings, I'm not sure that it's absolutely useful to trying correct for them specifically as opposed to individualizing the experience of a user who is already involved in seeking out content that they like and signaling to the system that they do. After all, it's theoretically possible that someone might like the kind of content that is consistently voted up by a bot. I hate to make that kind of assumption up front. It's theoretically possible that, at some point, someone might create a bot which consistently votes up content that I'm interested in. Theoretically.
(You really have a bunch of friends who like to follow you around and flag everything you do, don't you? I don't think that I've ever seen a comment with a reasonable content like that get so absolutely stepped on as hard as feet could go. It's really quite impressive. No one cares that I'm a thorn in their side so much that they follow me around quite so slavishly. Good job!)
I have been trying a type of market basket analysis in R - but getting it wrong so far.. Im trying something like if A votes for Y all the time, who else also votes for Y all the time.. Im very new to R, this will take me months to master lol
lol... I know what you mean. My personal fear is that this happens to me with spammers, who's spam becomes so good that I simply give them their upvote;-)
A personalized filter would be something here. I would be already happy, if I could simply follow or mute tags as it is possible with users. In combination with a language filter, that would filter out at least 95% of the BS floating around. Scrolling through the rest of the available posts would be almost possible without having to make any further selection...
If you filter out bots (there are maybe 20 big&relevant ones), I think you'd still get a picture about preferences, but the result would probably be too flat, because smaller users don't get enough votes in the first place.
A filter I would imagine as interesting is one that works by recursive means like Google or the citation system Google is built after, but I'm not sure how exactly that should look like (by upvote, by comment etc). Unfortunately, I don't have the means to try;-(
On the downvotes: That comes from the user @berniesanders / @nextgencrypto. He's a bit of a menace here on Steemit and I'm trying to take him down and it looks like I have found his weak spot. Here's one of the posts I dedicated to him. Normally, he also posts a comment after my comments in which he calls me a Nazi. Looks like he has given that up..
I will follow you now.
Ah I see, thanks. I just realized she's referring to the list on steembottracker.com as a whole. Man, there are a lot of bots!^^
This leaves then the question where the profits go. I know boomerang and minnowbooster shuffle it back to the community, but there are several holding accounts where a lot of profits go.
Would be interesting to learn how and where the money gets hoarded (and by whom).