Is DPoS Just a Popularity Contest?
I've been busy traveling lately (D.C., San Fransisco, Las Vegas), and noticed I've been dropping in witness rankings from #2 to #19. Some larger unvotes started a couple weeks ago:
With some more activity today:
@berniesanders can probably take credit for today's activity with his post here, and it seems he's back to flagging my posts and comments. He did that a while back for a couple months, downvoting my stuff right before payout so others wouldn't notice and counter with their own upvotes. I used to have an emotional response to this behavior, but it doesn't bother me much these days.
I think flags and downvotes play a role as well expressing your opinions on who should be a witness and who shouldn't. I've talked about flags quite a bit here which links to other posts like this one here. If Bernie wants to stay anonymous to continue flagging and (what I consider) trolling, that's up to him. I've asked him to come on a live video chat to discuss his views about Steem, SteemitInc, and me as an individual (he considers me a pretentious douchebag), but he always declines my request. The invitation is still open.
What I did find interesting is a reminder of how much DPoS may just be a popularity contest. For a while I was ranked as high as number two out of all Steem witnesses. That made no sense to me. There are many other amazing witnesses providing very real value to the ecosystem with the many projects and contributions they make. I've had a number of people thank me for my contributions as well in terms of providing trusted commentary, education, context, and understanding of the larger cryptocurrency space which I've been doing since 2013, but does that really justify a number two spot? If a witness position is mostly about trust in securing a node, I guess that could make sense, but even then there are other trustworthy witnesses out there who may not be as active as I am on chain (while some are far more active) and might deserve that spot more than me.
So how are token holders supposed to determine who is trustworthy and who deserves a witness vote? Few people will read through the 3+ years of Steem content some witnesses like myself have published, so it comes down to a general sense of popularity which is constantly shifting and changing. Some take issue with my announcement in April of 2018 to work with eosDAC or my work with FIO which I started officially 5 months ago, and yet my witness ranking kept increasing. In my opinion, tribalism is not a good thing, and my involvement in many different cryptocurrency projects is exactly why I bring unique value as a witness. It's why I sold my business in 2018 and why I don't think I'll ever have a traditional job again.
My work with eosDAC is why some looked to me for leadership during some drama with Steemit, Inc powering down their stake and helped me come up with some possible solutions like a SteemDAC. But that was then and this is now. When I see hugely valuable witnesses like @jesta (the creator of Vessel, SteemDB, and so much more) no longer in the top 20, I have to wonder what the votes are based on.
Maybe in the end, it doesn't really matter as long as the blocks are being secured by trusted nodes. As long as token holders continue to vote based on what is in the best interests of securing their investment, then we should be okay regardless of who is in the top 20. I'm glad to give perspective from many angles, including EOS which, with the launch of Voice, will be (IMO) one of the first real competitors for the Steem blockchain. Competition is good and healthy. I hope we learn from all chains and implement what we can from them to improve and grow.
As always, I'm available as a witness to answer questions you have. Though I have been busy with consulting, I will continue my passion to help educate people about cryptocurrency and how it can be used to improve human wellbeing. I still see Steem, today, as the most viable functioning blockchain solution for everyday users to enjoy. Many of my friends who shared my excitement about Steem have come and gone, but I'm still here. I plan to stay. This is still my home on the Internet.
What do you think about witness voting? Is it just a popularity contest?
If it is, what can we do to change it to more actively reflect its purpose of voting in trustworthy node operators?
Oh yeah, and what the hell have you brought back to Steem from all your time with EOS? Are you involved in anything on this chain? Don't try to use tribalism for your convenience. Where the hell were you when Dan Larimer was busy "re-imagining Steem"?
You know what's a good mutually beneficial contribution in crypto? Here's an example:
Ether Classic's Saturn Network working with Cardano.
You know what's a good Steem example?
@yabapmatt and @aggroed bringing Steem Monsters to other chains like Tron, so Steem can have some more reach instead of sitting in the well.
Let me ask you again. What have you brought back to the Steem ecosystem all this time in EOS? NOTHING.
Better question: what have you done in crypto space since 2013 that is beneficial across multiple projects as you claim?
If no one knows about it? Why?
Are you gonna be one of those witnesses who play victim or get offended when people starts to say things because nobody knows what the hell you are doing in the Top 20?
Careful, your toxic tribalism is showing, hahaha!
The fact you are so quick to defend your tribalism and attack this witness earns him my vote.
It's funny you mentioned @yabapmatt and @aggroed as I've been working with them along with @appics on a project that does bridge the gap between EOS, Steem, and Appics.
I already mentioned the SteemDAC concept which I still think could benefit how the Steem community makes decisions and moves forward with community funds. I do think DACs are the future and they could be done within Steem as well. Not sure what you mean in terms of Dan. Please clarify if you want a more detailed answer there.
I haven't written direct code as I've been more focused on advising projects based on my experience. A big part of that is educating people about blockchain and cryptocurrency which is why I think I've done so well as a witness as many who don't yet understand this stuff find that really valuable. Being involved in multiple projects helps me be a better educator.
And no, I'm not playing victim or getting offended. If people want to call me a piece of shit, that's up to them, but I find it ironic coming from bernie relating to extracting wealth from the platform considering I've been running the exchange transfer report for years and I see directly how much value he extracts to exchanges.
People should and will vote however they want.
And one of the said guys unapproved your witness.
I can't tell if that's really funny, ironic, or really sad.
Doesn't bother me in the least. I couldn't explain why I was in the number two spot either.
@abusereports downvoted your comment.
What a shitshow people like sanders, ngc and markymark have made this place.
If even you, as a witness, get this type of abuse I'm thinking voice is the much better option for non-whales now.
Under the Steem model, one person with significant stake can significantly impact the user experience of everyone else. I think Dan saw this problem and tried to address it in various ways with flag wars and such, but ultimately it's a reputation and identity issue combined with a token (or power/value) distribution problem.
There are no perfect solutions. PoW has issues with centralized hashing power. DPoS has issues with token voting collusion or just "the rich get richer" problem. Ultimately it comes down to how willing we are as a species to cooperate. If we can't do that, we will not have freedom and voluntary interactions.
Well really our system only requires you sell a few people on your value as most peoples' vote makes very little difference.
when some were upset about EOS, I didn't mind that some of our witnesses were on both platforms and thought it would be good for Steem witnesses to have a variety of experiences.
With that being said, it has been a long time since I've seen anything that says you are working for Steem. That might be a communication issue on your part or it could be a reflection of the truth.
Best of luck in whatever you do, the space is always growing and changing and sometimes projects no longer fit our needs and vice versa.
Thanks for the level-headed response, @whatsup. I've spent hours helping with projects like this, but that's not really based on the whole Steem ecosystem, just one project within it. I agree with you, if people find other witnesses adding more value than me, then they should clearly change their votes to reflect that. I've said the same since the beginning.
I think the reason you are seeing a current reaction is due to the up and coming hardfork issue, and the difficulty and stress it is creating. There has been little clear communication or even evaluation on how it will impact the community. Many are stressed and having little visibility during this time, is challenging for those who have been working on it, trying to describe it and ending up getting the angst of the community.
Of course they would be upset with those who seem disengaged and uninterested.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I followed quite a bit of those discussions closely and they are some of the same issues we've been discussing around here for many months (rewards curve changes, downvote pool, etc) without ever coming to a clear consensus on them. At some point it's useless to continue debating the same things over and over again. People will be upset no matter which direction things go, but I agree, I could definitely be providing more value to the community during this time to explain things and help people understand the changes coming.
Aren't EOS and STEEM both DPoS? 🤔
Yes, they are. I've seen similar issues in EOS voting as well as BitShares voting. It's an important discussion to have.
Whatever the reasons looks like it's co-ordinated.
If only Steem was genuinly economically decentralised it wouldn't be possible for a handful of people to manipulate the top 20!
Maybe someone floating around 21-25 has been 'bought' and they're being promoted to ensure HF21 goes ahead... as you say, you're undecided!
It's a good question - how do you decide on a good witness? So many variables - but I don't think having a working life outside of Steem and not spending your life colluding on Discord should count against you.
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I pulled my vote, it wasn't easy, but because I just wasn't seeing the level of enthusiasm from you for Steem than I once saw. I still vote for you on EOS though :) - I think you are a great witness/block producer, but as you said yourself, there are plenty of deserving witnesses that are putting a lot of work into Steem, now.
That's absolutely fair, and I think enthusiasm does play an important role. As long as people are voting for good witnesses, I'm happy.
Are you writing a post complaining about losing witness votes when you are a top 20 witness who mostly left Steem for EOS and doesn't do anything on Steem but collect Steem Power?
Hahahaha! This post is inception level meta, take my upvote!
I'm not complaining. I'm having a discussion about what goes into DPoS voting and using Steem (and my own position as a witness) as an example.
By what criteria do you say I "mostly left Steem"?
I've been traveling the last few weeks, sure, and I've been really focused on helping build DAC technology and work with FIO. Does that mean I left? I don't think so. Does it mean I'm less engaged and spending less time here? Yeah, that's accurate. Does it make sense that I got all the way to the top 2 position? No, I don't think so. Is that my fault I got voted that high? No, they weren't my votes, that's up to Steem Power holders.
To say I don't do anything on Steem when I'm still here posting as I have been for over three years (though a bit less active in comments), isn't accurate.
Yes.
(Edit)
However, when it comes to voting for witnesses I don't look at what they have done. I only look at what they are doing. You get 1 month under my system.
Also, I believe @berniesanders is a failed Democratic president candidate. He is definitely a controversial charavter, but subtle suggestions to dox people are not cool. Am I supposed to respect you because you are saying you can but aren't doxing him?
You're probably right. I'll remove that comment. The information was sent to me over a year ago. I didn't request it or seek it out. I chuckled and moved on.
I think removing it was the right thing to do.
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Wasn't that cute?
He said my flags don't bother him much, then threatens to dox me.
I don't take these threats very lightly, just an FYI @lukestokes.
I don't think anything I've ever done bothers you, so I'm surprised that did. If I wanted to dox you I would have done it a long time ago. Someone sent me the info a long time ago and I chuckled and moved on. If it bothers you, I'll edit the post and remove that comment.
If you want to do a video chat and discuss your thoughts on Steem, Steemit Inc, me or anything else, I'm still open to do it. I don't hate you, I just don't like how you treat people.
I missed your post he linked. I will have a look. But I think saying such things at least deserve a separate post to avoid detracting from the subject.
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@berniesanders shut up Justin you fag
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As a small fish in this big sea, I often wonder the same thing. As you have said most witnesses do not post or engage with us small fish it can be hard to choose. I do believe that my vote counts, but understand that a few whales truly determine who makes the top 20. I do my best to vote for witnesses that make a contribution, ie. create and build projects that support the growth of STEEM.
Thanks for doing what you can.
There's also an issue with correlating Steem witness pay with pay that relates directly to a product or project which benefits the Steem ecosystem. A long time ago the witness pay was drastically reduced to make it clear that position isn't about building products as much as it is about running a trustworthy producer node, though of course there are many different opinions on this.
Thanks for the reply. I understand that coming up with a way to determine a way to create a rating. Maybe they current SP weight could changed to remove some of the top SP holders to better reflect the average Steemians vote.
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I’m pretty sure most people just vote for whoever is already in the top 20. Or don’t vote at all.
I even got lost for awhile in my beginning on Steem with all of the options. It would be great if there was a proper database that would show what all each witness has provided, how active they are, etc.
Sadly for most users, they will never spend the time getting to know the witnesses.
I know the main reason I vote for you as a witness is because I’ve actually met you in person. I haven’t been had the chance to do the same with any of the other top witnesses. Meeting and getting a feel for you as a person solidified my vote, you didn’t seem to be out for yourself. That’s huge here, WE ARE A COMMUNITY. We need each other.
This recent addition from Steempeak may help which allows witnesses to add a bit of text to describe what they do: https://steempeak.com/me/tools/witnesses
You bring up a good point though... if we meet people in person, we naturally feel more connected to them and can therefore trust them more. A witness is a position of trust. It seems the voting does shift towards those who are more available to connect as real people which might explain why my ranking got so high as number 2.
Wow, that link is literally exactly what I was talking about. Thank you.
We may be in a digital age, but physical connections still trump the highest speeds of digital transfers.