USA wants.. Travelers to Declare Bitcoin at the Border!
Senator Chuck Grassley from R-IA just proposed a new bill targetting cryptocurrency users to declare what and how much worth of cryptocurrency people entering USA have.
The bill goes by name and number U.S. Bill S.1241
The Exact Cryptocurrency Targeted Line
If this goes out when entering USA you will be obligated to say what kind of currencies you have on your devices and claim that with U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency.
When getting to USA you currently have to declare if you have more than 10 000 USD of cash on yourself and Customs may seek your bagage if they believe you have more and didnt confirm you do.
With cryptocurrencies this gets more complex - you can have 0 on your phone but can have all stored ie on exchange to which you have password. With such interpretation it would mean you have to tell of ALL CRYPTOCURRENCIES you hold even outside USA when entering.
Due to complications this may cause itself some lawyers predict Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act will get extended so that USA knows of everyones holdings - even if you dont live there or never been.
Keep in mind - this is just in talks and the bill didnt pass yet.
We can see where its going to go in future even if not this time.
Full text to read is on https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/1241/text
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This is an absolutely ridiculous bill. I hope they make some bills to give people financial freedom. Guess who HIRES these senators into office.
Well, if you look at the bright side, immigration police now have to learn about bitcoin and cryptocurrencies :)
LOL. There is going to be a steep learning curve to this...which is my main reason these dinosaurs will never effectively regulate it.
I fully agree, they can't even get the "old school" method of pen & paper to PC to work, how are they going to check crypto currencies which is based on algorithms that the normal person can't understand? This is just another form of control that they want to implement, but they don't realize that it's not something that can be controlled by a simple policy or law.
the danger is not now the danger is in the future, if you ever come under gov scrutiny or run for public office and they start digging into your past, and them viola they can say he you left the country in 2017 with your phone(nobody is going to leave the country without it) and you had 50k in crypto so now we can do a civil assets forefiture and you are screwed , thats how they work and that is their ultimate goal, resistance is futile.
They can pull a civil assets forfeiture for you running a red light. Lots of cases of this happening. Crypto is just another excuse. You could spit on the sidewalk in Oklahoma and the cops could take your car, house and anything else they wanted. There are over 4 million laws in this country. Breaking any of the least of them can and will result in civil asset forfeiture if they decide to go after you or me. Being involved in Crypto doesn't give them anymore of an excuse than they have already. Just My Honest Opinion.
are you from oklahoma
That's right , this is not going to effect everyday life unless they decide they want some leverage on you later. Better safe than sorry , you could send the bitcoin to a friend in the country you are visiting ahead of time.
How would they even know how to check your balance ?
Wallets are encrypted or protected and no matter what you answer, it would be almost impossible for them to confirm
If you use Coinbase or if you use any crypto debit card there is a link to your identity and they are tracking every transaction the same as if you were using a bank account. This is true even if you are not a U.S. citizen. The IRS has already gained access to all transactions on Coinbase from the past 3 years.
Also most cryptos are not anonymous and can be traced including steem.
dinosaurs is Right, Didn't one of the top players in the political game have major issues with a simple email.....ha ..maybe BlockChain will even speed up the removal of the old heads for these reasons.
ROFL, steep learning curve, that's an understatement!
^One hundred percent yes!
If they ask for help just tell them "Git good" bruh
this is nothing but another media campaign. they don't really have the resources to regulate cryptos.
There is no way they can trace what you have...
So either they don't know that yet
or they're trying to scare the people who don't understand
into thinking their crypto can be traced.
That is going to be wrong in many cases, crypto is not anonymous. Anybody that has ever cashed crypto for fiat using an exchange or a debit card is being tracked.
When its cashed in they can track it, when its crypto they can't.
The IRS has already gained access to every transaction on Coinbase
this does not stop more money from fleeing USD into cryptocurrency every day, or at all diminish the gargantuan untapped market that exists for crypto. the US govt is a complete disaster politically and effectively, even worse on the "underbelly" from what can be gleaned. they can't stop the crypto revolution, meanwhile the rest of the world abandons the US petrodollar as the global standard and humanity enters a new age of economics. when they limit their citizens abilities to use crypto, those who understand the "why" will adopt even faster.
agree with you, followed ;)))
I truly hope you are right!
I agree with you but, the mild threat is still a threat... In time they (the feds) will be better informed, and smarter about how they go about trying to keep tabs on whom has what...
It is hard enough explaining the chip on a credit card. Where do you begin with bitcoin??
Bitcoin is omnipresent and therefore maybe not real and therefore you can say you do not have any because you cannot have something that is everywhere
I upvoted your message ... I believe you are right. You only claim what you are bringing with you. It my friend is not with you. Do the rich claim their bank accounts that the US has no jurisdiction over. The bankers do NOT regulate bit coin. Do you concur @kingscrown?
exactly
Makes sense.
You are right , its basically like forcing you to declare your bank account balance.
I agree with you too, but that argument wouldn't hold up in court if you somehow did get caught holding BTC.
Isn't it by fact money that you don't really own? It's virtual. At the time you have these numbers "related" (and nothing more) to your "account" there is no real, existing value in your possession. You only REALLY have any capital, if your transact into mainstream currency.
It's like charging you at the air port for holding microsoft stocks.
Or am I missing something? I don't think it suceeds.
Crypto is definitely an asset that you own and is regulated either as a commodity or as a currency depending on where you live. But you are correct that it is ridiculous and similar to asking you your bank account balance.
there is no bright side if we have to declare crypto assets to a central authority, that's bizarre
Seems like regulators are always on the defensive. They cannot stop innovation from happening.
check out what GDAX coinbase is doing about that crash!!
https://steemit.com/gdax/@austinsandersco/gdax-reversing-margin-calls
yeah, +1 follower ;))
They will most likely get it wrong :/
i sure hope so
True Dat!
ya, but they are all so tied into the "system" I am certain they will be good employees of the state and do their utmost best at smashing anyone who believes in Bitcoin or other cryptos
@codebreader, Good time to spread more in public...let police explain what it is..in case public asks ...LOL
This is just silly... How could they find who is not declaring their holdings? Pretty tricky I think to regulate...
But oh well... America is the land of prohibition.
Lets see how this unfolds
this bill is nothing but a weak PR campaign. intelligent crypto users will not be intimidated by it. this is the same media spin that has been blowing up in their faces lately with everything, and citizens are waking up. it will only spur more crypto adoption.
In reality, there is no way they can enforce this bill! Just another piece of government propaganda!!
They can. You already have to say what Facebook etc. accounts you have (You, because terrorist always state their attacks weeks before on facebook), so other accoutns are not that different.
+1
It can't possibly be enforced.
This sort of thing is just growing pains while the world adapts to these currencies.
Non western countries are handeling this situation way better, instead of trying enforce something they can't control.
the problem is its just another tool to separate you from wealth, if they decide to mess with you and , lets say you traveled outside of the US two years ago and you had 50.000 in crypto at the time and you took your phone, computer, or whatever with you anything that would give you access to your accounts, they go back 2 years see that you didnt declare anything and bam civil assets forfeiture and now you are broke.
That's assuming that you have only the same devices that you started out with. You could easily use other devices while you're away and rid yourself of them before you return. After all access is private.
but if down the road you come under some type of gov scrutiny and they discover you were out of the country in the past and you had over 10.000 in crypto they can seize all of your assets and you are screwed.
You are right, this will not effect most people but if they decide they want to nail you for some reason they have this at their disposal.
Plus jail time,
Be careful what you put in your brain wallet...extraction could get messy in a back room at the border or airport...FEMA camp?
Indeed. That's what they do.
Another Bill created by Gov Mafia , but there is always a way to go around it...
Communists and Globalists are trying to get their hands on cryotos...something that they can't control or put a tax on...hmmm looks like a war on Cryptos begin
Did you ever notice that when a politician does get an idea he usually gets it all wrong.
-Don Marquis-
Grassley with fake Clinton smile like snake
Haha...good one
Blame your President, of course!!
This is quite very serious. Is it possible to declear such? The is a need for goverment to learn more about how the crypto world works.
hahahahaha. So true. So damn true!
I don't know how many people get the pic, but think it's funny as hell.
Oh shit, he has a Commodore 128!
I'd rather avoid US and still make money on bitcoins :)
This is ridiculous!!! I'm screaming like a little girl!
I even made $80 on 1 comment recently!
This shows how much they are technologically behind!
Let's just stop the internet and go living nomadic lifestyle. That will certainly help humankind..
Agree @joseph things are getting unreal...
I can't agree more. How they will be able to confirm if I will say I have 2BTC? Are they going to check my "Wallet".
Interesting to watch this law if they will pass.
Follow me @yehey
Thank you.
government is not suppose to see any of our money in the first place not to mention Bitcoin
You are not supposed to use any government provided services - streets, lights, police, fire fighters, food security - in the first place!
Which they could somehow check your wallet or make them reveal how much a client has will put them out of business. From everyone leaving their company and they ain't going to allow that to happen.
It has already happened to Coinbase.
@yehey, yeah exactly how they will know and assure that everyone will declare cryptocurrency that is crazy, I rather not intering US, there's a lot more beautiful country than US.
The next step will be them asking for your wallet adress. Not that that will help them in any way but they don't know that yet.
The politicians want to control everything the people do, but they squander the taxpayers' money. Cryptocurrency is returning power to the people and removing power from the banks and governments. This is the future
This happens when we give power to those who do whatever they want with our lives, i don't want even say the financial freedom. They will find a way to regulate :(, its for our Protection!!
Working "hard" after all lol
i couldnt agree with you more @joseph !
Bitcoin and other cryptocurrenciesare a thread to the existing status quo, especially of (the fiscal policies of) the state and of course the system of (central) banks. That's why they put crypto's in the same bill with money laundering, financing in terrorism and other criminal activities. Of course bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are an evlotion in the freedom of money and can't be stopped by any bill as long as there is internet. This bill is really not more then a "spasm" of the losing war of nations states and banks with decentralized money
First the government has to really understand bitcoin and cryptocurrency
Full agree! And also, when this happens, what is the point of having anonymous currency?
@joseph I hope this is where a scan copy paper wallets in mobile may solve to pass the customs.
Later on trade the crypto off the radar like with bitsquare or localbitcoins might solve the issue :-D
As we all know, the gov't is good for forcing ridiculous bills on us, ugh!
Yes i agree with you!
Looking at the bright side of the proposed bill, it will spike a positive vibe towards the push of cryptocurrency stakeholders in making bitcoin a more universal generally accepted currency to laws and places thats still holds purchase barn through bitcoin
I'm more worried about what might come of the bill, will there be some sort of imposed tax or will it just be a form of 'monitoring' and 'regulation'
One of the motivation behind cryptocurrency was financial freedom and ability to avoid being regulated by the government. This bill is against that; I wonder how they can enforce this with some of the wallets offering high anonymity. One can choose to remove the app from the phone, and there's no way border security can find/tell anything!
Bitcoin is not anonymous.
thats crazy, they will try to get you anyway they can, luckily i dont travel outside the U.S. but im sure they will find a way to get my money, one way or another...
Damn right, this is like checking if you are circumcised or not. This bill even if passed will never come to fruition and affect our travels, there is just no way..
Agreed that this is digusting. And what is financial freedom nowadays??
that means US is not really developed i laws as we think.
People are putting their money on Bitcoin to gain some value and run away from transaction fees.
anyway there are a lot of ways to escape from this bill it it is going to exist in the furure.
thank god there are a lot of types of Bitcoin wallets that makes it easy to hide. not only mobile phone can store it. and Bitcoin community should think about this. Because a lot of haters are trying to apply stupid laws on bitcoin in many countries not only US.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Not you. You think there is democracy? Wow. This is why we're fucked.
Completely agree on this subject. The older i get the more i realize everything I have been "taught" by Government is just outright BULLSHIT.
Yes, I agree that this Bill are very ridiculous, to some average people it may not help to live in abundantly, because it is a great way for us to be free in financial.
You can say it again @joseph
I quite agree with you on this one...but for them to make bills giving people financial freedom is like them making bill to end capitalism...
It is not ridiculous, it is logical. If you have to declare the money you bring in, that of course also applies to non-printed money.
Right now the bill has no real application, because bitcoins are no a tangible thing, and with 12 seed words you can access you wallet at the other side of the border, but was is bad about this news is the direction the future could go if governments decide to intervene and regulate crypto-currencies and that is surely possible, in some countries bitcoin is ilegal and on some other countries, central banks are preparing to ICO their own digital money. Bitcoin now has great flaws in speed / fees / irreversible accidental transactions, and if a central bank offer a better crypto currency it sure will attract the majority of the business and people attention.
no one can stop the cryptocurrency revolution, not even this corrupt goverment haha
The more government tries to regulate, the more people want to deregulate. We are living in an interesting world indeed.
let the games being :) spot on jo
@joseph
I agree that people need some financials to be passed.
Yet again, I doubt, Govt. may need to train the Defence Personals about crypto currencies. LOL
Meanwhile, I shared a Hilarious Interview Where Isaac Asimov Predicted These Things, in around 1875, that turned into reality, in the 20s.
Please, check it out and share your thoughts.
Not only a ridiculous Bill, but something they have no idea about. This suggestion comes from Jamie Dimon and those folks over on "K" street that do everything to take every dime we have. I can hear it now. "What are you doing with that much Crypto"? It the same practice they do when traveling with too much cash.... Hey US Government, if it's not above me, It's "B"LOW me! I claim nothing and like it....
Just great one more thing to "cheek"
I don't get it. I guess it more reasons for Big Brother to profit from crypto currency. I still don't know how the government can track an individual account through the block chain.
exactly
It should be no surprise if government officials will be exempt from this bill.
Love will save the world!
So what? This boils down to you basically incriminating yourself. Lessons to learn of this:
Ultimately, if you end up in the worse case scenario, you'll be given a lot of negative pressure. Instead of giving into it, ENJOY IT! Enjoy having a completely valid excuse to have everything taken care of for you at the moment--they're not going to torture you. And if you're in a position where this is the case, then you should already be hiring consultants on what to do about these situations :)
Want more information? Hit me up on twitter and we can do a consultation: @robertgenito
...btw, another strategy is just to know what information you should always give out. And don't talk :D
Great tips man! Its definitely easy to make fun of big bros ridiculous ideas, but when the rubber meets the road real practical strategies may be needed.
ya....so true!
@kingscrown this is awkward!
Indian Govt. is also making weird assumptions about crypto world.
LOL. No one gotcha catch Y'all.
Meanwhile, I shared a Hilarious Interview Where Isaac Asimov Predicted These Things, in around 1875, that turned into reality, in the 20s.
Please, check it out and share your thoughts.
I think you have a lot of experience on this, great advices :)
really great post I would encourge you to make an actual post about this because there are loads of people who think they are immune from this.
One can always load up their Trezor with a bogus BTC wallet while keeping the original hidden. There is no way they can figure out that multiple wallet recite on the same device.
With a gun...detention...questioning/interrogation or even with the thought of the hassle and delay "they" can figure that out. ('they' I put between quotation marks since they represent 'you' and do what 'you' want so there is no 'they')
Maybe some are good at lying under pressure but many are not.
Indeed.
Indeed?
I don't get your answer.
You say it's easy, I say that it's not.
You say there's no way they can figure out, I say with violence they have always and every time figured it out in the past and present and done horrible things to innocent people
And than your answer is indeed.
I'm not a native english speaker maybe that is the problem.
There is no way to find out how many wallets you have inside one due to the encryption.
O.k. Thanks for the reply first and foremost.
I don't know enough of that.
But if I understand you correctly the wallet(s) are not visible even for hackers and they are not hackable, by hackers who work for government, if you look at it from the technical side.
As long as they don't get the info from you while they threaten you.
I guess the only solution is stop voting for oppressors.
Love will save the world!
I'm happy not to live in USA for various reasons, this certainly adds another one
They'll copy this bill elsewhere and maybe your country if it goes through and other governments see it is feasible. All governments want as much control as they can get.
There are so many areas where US citizens are barred from participating in blockchain and cryptocurrency platforms and services. It's absurd. It's getting to the point where companies in that industry are just blocking Americans by default to avoid the hassle--can't blame them!
Don't worry too much. They're generously handing out free land in the Caucasus...worse case. (mental note).
We can return to community reliance as nature intended:)
Love will save the world!
That works for me because I have 0 crypto on my devices.
basically nobody has crypto on any device, only private keys and if it's on an exchange you do not have any key, or contract, just trust that a "withdrawal" from the exchange will go through...
And even with a private key you don't have any coins, only the right to "spent" unspent transactions.
This is exactly why this bill is "fake news!!!"
Thats the spirit :)
I just used this post and your profile in my video about Steem to show people how amazing Steemit is :-)
https://steemit.com/steemit/@acryptotrader/my-steemit-video-please-share
How many will be declaring there STEEMIT accounts?
Exactly @billbutler i think that if you are into cryptos you hold them in safee places than mobile devices... And i dont see how government will ever have access here...
Apparently there are companies now that refuse to deal with US citizens as clients.
It's simply not worth their time and aggravation.
How can the 'land of the free' justify the subjugation of its citizens like this?
I do wonder how much further theyre going to push this...Until the natives get restless.
It's the arrogance of the power structure that leads them to believe that they can keep on twisting the rubber band tighter and tighter with no consequence. I wish we had politicans that weren't so stupid as to push us that far. Why can't they just leave their egos at home and think things through and determine the best course of action, for the greater good?
You begin to wonder if the attitudes they hold are a consequence of being elevated into power.
Maybe most humans just can't do 'power' very well ?
How bout it? Nothing sustains itself without balance. There's no give and take in Control. I'm seeing this pattern crumble in all aspects of my personal/private life. All my friend and family ( both foreign and domestic:). I think the rumors of a shift are being prove true. The meek have had enough. I try to disengage and observe...but it's difficult.
Yeah but, if the natives are properly brainwashed will enough of them get restless?
The land of the free aren't paying attention.
It will be a long long battle but decentralization will come out victorious. Can I get an Amen!
At what point does a politician forget that he/she is a SERVANT of the people, immediately after getting elected?
right after they're shown the Blackmail tapes, maybe?
I sense some cynicism there ... :-)
Maybe just a tad:)....Truth can be jading.
Donald Trump would be disgusted to think he should be anybody's servant.
Politician......... break it down........... poli or poly meaning "many"....... tic ian ... "tic" a tiny blood sucking parasite. Nuff said.
You can tell when something is going to be a game changer when the politicians start getting scared. The thought of not being able to squeeze you by the balls and hear you pips 'pop' is terrifying to them. The longer I experience this so called 'democracy' the more I think it's just the other side of the totalitarian, facist coin. At the end of the day...no matter what system you believe in and no matter who you have elected in power...they all view us as sheep. To be controlled, incentivised, terrify, subjugate and fool.
Human nature being what it is, makes one think they're better than the rest when elevated into a position of power. It's this loss of perspective and de-coupling from the issues faced by ordinary people that leads them to make decisions that show nothing but contempt.
Now we have a new distruptive technology where the mantra is:
No one is in in control and yet EVERYONE is in control.
Crypto is genius. Blockchain is genius.
Long live Satoshi. One bad ass, forward thinking, disruptive muther fucker!!!
This is an absolute joke!
Exactly! That is what it is a joke! The joke is on us thou... These elected fools on all sides are forging their own controlled world. They have for a long time. I also don't understand when i read people saying that they will declare their bitcoin gains to the IRS. That is foulish!!! I guess they are the same sheeps who would support such a border declaration bill.
I believe alot of it is just for public speculation! Don't believe everything you read :)
Here's hoping you're right.
Lets see!