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RE: Look out for the reality enforcers!
Yes, but Ray, you could make the argument that rape and paedophilia are okay (not that you would think that!) based on that logic! I think we may be having a semantic argument here. What I see as absolute, you don't!
Oh personally I definitely have absolutes. All of my morals are absolute. I'm looking at it in the wider perspective - as if I was a pinprick in a massive haystack (which we are in essence)
Yeah, I am still not seeming to convey what I mean!
What you, I, or anyone else may think morally isn't terribly relevant. What I mean by a "moral absolute" is a "rule" that cannot be reasonably challenged from an ethical or moral perspective. By anyone.
Returning to genocide - I cannot see such an angle that someone (absolutely anyone!) could reasonably posit to suggest that genocide is morally acceptable. I don't care what the KKK or Hitler might say - their position is not reasonable.
If one could come up with a scenario where one million people had to be sacrificed to save ten million people, then this would qualify as a reasonable ethical justification. I cannot see this scenario existing though!
So my position is that genocide not being acceptable is a moral absolute. There is no reasonable justification to advocate genocide.
Paedophilia and rape are the same. Killing, not so much! There are definite grey areas, here...
I think that sums it up, the grey area thing. Most things are a shade of grey. A few things are not.
In our world yes. Not in places where Genocide is a natural occurrence within society every decade or so. I get what you mean. I really do.
But who are you to deem what's reasonable? Are you now the scales of justice that we need to abide by? It's like when the US and UK get involved in matters they shouldn't. Why do we think we should? Do we honestly think we have any moral high ground ourselves to pass judgement on another culture?
Personally, I see genocide as a very bad, nasty thing that needs to stop. But how can I sit there and say that I am right and they are wrong.
Who says I am right and they are wrong?
If the Earth inhabits 50 black people, 30 white people and 20 mixed race people. All of a sudden then 50 black people eliminate the 30 white people.
Is it wrong? Who is reasonable?
I don't believe in a God that passes out morals just for the icing on the cake. I only believe in people and their actions.
So who decides that scenario is wrong? You? Me? Whomever? What if the Black and Asian communities rejoiced at the killing? No-one would see it as wrong - so would it be wrong?
I see the world as all shades of grey lol
Is a fair point. I am no-one of importance. And the same could be said for any individual, which I know is the point you are making. That you get to be disparaging about my point of view is just a happy by-product!
I think - finally! - we have managed to communicate our perspectives.
I have been Googling this all day, and I am sure you won't be surprised to hear that there is no consensus about all this, just loads of opinions.
I suppose I am saying that, to use genocide as an example, that as I cannot think of any moral or ethical justification (even theoretically) that would make it okay, then I am suggesting "Genocide is wrong" is a moral absolute. The same goes for rape. The same goes for paedophilia.
Now, I know that you are not seeking to defend genocide, rape or paedophilia, but I think you are now in the peculiar position of having to argue that there could be a given set of circumstances when these actions would be okay, if you don't want accept my position which is all three are absolutely and inarguably wrong.
Good luck with that!
Okay, well, this is where our opinions differ. I argue that those with 'unreasonable' (to us) mindsets could think up a whole load of reasons as to why these 3 things are okay. As to how they would morally justify their actions I have no clue whatsoever - because I am neither these three.
I know you're not!
I think this has run it's course! I believe that we are advanced enough morally and ethically to be able to arrive at an definitive answer to these three examples, which would make them absolute.
I believe you disagree with this statement!
And I think this fascinating exchange is at an end...I believe this is an impasse.