RE: Are women who dress provocatively responsible for unwanted attention, or should men learn to control themselves? The @ecotrain question of the week
Whilst men react to different degrees to this kind of stimulus, its far to say that most men are wired in the same way. They have this kind of instinct to seduce a woman... they have a carnal desire to procreate and have sex with different women, even if they are married. It's fair to say that MOST men cheat (may women too!), and whether or not they are married, they are always on the look out for someone else. I know this because of ALL the men i have ever known, VERY VERY VERY few have been faithful.
I'm sorry, but I disagree, and a lot. The problem is that they've been told it's okay to follow their instincts and primal desires, because that's their make up. However, it's because they haven't been raised to control themselves - it's just another symptom of a hedonistic, ego driven, desire culture that allows for men to have these freedoms and not woman and then say 'it's in their nature'. It's just an excuse. You can't compare human beings to animals - we have the ability to reason and have self control. There's never, ever any excuse for unwanted attention especially when the message is loud and clear. Sure, woman might want attention - but they never WANT men to behave in a way that is harmful i.e rape etc. I guess it depends what you're classifying as unwanted attention.
To be honest, it's a cultural thing and it's an identification thing and this seems to have crossed cultures in the favour of men too. Men are socialised to demand, woman to take it. It's everywhere and all pervasive in the media. If men could control themselves and tell their boys how to handle their desires - and i'm saying mothers too have this responsiblity - then maybe we wouldnt have this question in the first place. It's not just woman who are responsible, it's men, it's the culture, it's all of us.
yeah .. i can see what you are saying.. just look at some asian cultures,, like i think Japan, where the men would not dream of acting out like they do in many parts of the world .. they have learned respect and self control.. with some trade off's maybe..
i think a lot of this has to do with sexual repression, and unfulfilled desire. I think your average joe doesn't know how to make love to his woman, and just knows how to shag.. so his sex life is stagnant and boring.. and his wife or partner all too familiar.. and then, boom. . he's out of control .. because the whole culture is out of balance .. and that is also what it is.. a symptom of a very sick culture.. a very ill society indeed..
just to also clarify. . when i wrote this i used the words "unwanted attention".. I think it was a good choice of words, and to me meant none physical attention. .. let's say at worst a guy pinching your ass and getting all in your personal space.. and not backing off after you tell him No. Generally though it meant things like wolf whistling, saying inappropriate things, or just being an ass..
My Personal feeling is also that this is about a cultural thing. We live in ever mixed societies.. and have to ask ourselves to what extent we are willing to compromise to show our respect for others that we co exist with. I saw a facebook post the other week from an israeli girl who was really horrified that she took flack and was asked to cover up whilst wearing fairly revealing clothing on the train.. The train was shared by both religious and non-religious jews and others.. and the religious jews, especially the men find it very offensive and difficult to witness. So my feeling was that she could have just taken a shawl or something to look a little less enticing, and taken it off when out of an enclosed public space.. this might be a good QOTW in itself.. "To what extent should we compromise our lifestyle or personal choices to satisfy the need of others" .. or something!
I guess for woman, we can't help but extend 'unwanted attention' into it's worst possible outcome, because that's very real for us. It's more a problem with the question and how it can be interpreted - I just posted mine, and it was tricky to say the least.
I do agree it's cultural, and I wrote as much on mine too. I'm offended by girls who wear revealing things on trains - I mean, come on - !! I hate it when girls wear bikinis into shops (my husband doesn't) - it's just that we don't need to see that, thanks, in that situation! I definitely don't buy that 'I should wear what i want, where I want, in any situation' because that's just not polite. Mind you, why can men go topless and not woman? See, it's a big, big topic. But absolutely, we should show respect for others.
As for unfulfilled desires, I do think it's more about NOT KNOWING HOW TO HANDLE our desires. Why should every desire be filled? Shouldn't we be looking at how to handle the range of human emotions we have and how to deal with them? If your sexual desire isn't fulfilled in a relationshiop, that doesn't mean you have an excuse to have an affair (sorry, I know this is personal, and tbh, I've been guilty in my youth too, and I'd like to argue I didn't know better, and I suffered guilt for a long time because of it - and J's Dad did the same, which affected his kids for a long time too) - maybe it should be about looking at the range of emotions that led you to want to act on that primal desire? And talk it through with one's partner/call it off before doing something even more to cause damage?
It's definitely a cultural thing, and that means WE ALL HAVE RESPONSIBILITY to do something about it. Many woman will argue it's all harmless - but I would argue they haven't been the ones subject to abuse and rape and the worse extensions of 'unwanted attention'.
i think it's also the fact that men are not taught to necessarily center other people's emotions the way women are taught to "cater" --- and this furthermore leads men to center their own desires to the point of being so blind to what a woman wants many men profess not to even know... many years into their own relationships. i think that's all related. Related thoughts on....
I absolutely agree 100 percent and have a post planned on this topic. Thats why I shy away from being angry at men and work towards more culturally constructive solutions. XX
well well said.