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RE: Andrew Yang's Siren Song of Free Money Will Cost You Dearly

in #informationwar5 years ago (edited)

"There's no such thing as intrinsic value of gold. Complete Hogwash."

I disagree. A Gold coin has intrinsic value because even when it's melted, the alloy can still be sold off to the market for its original face value or more, and this is because outside of it's monetary form there is intrinsic value. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for the coins we currently have in circulation; this is because the Fed has devalued the dollar so thoroughly, that they've had to resort to devaluing the pennies, nickels, dimes, and quarters as well. Otherwise, people en mass would quickly learn that the easiest way to make money is to melt coins of lesser value and exchange them for dollars.

"Gold money and it's scarcity is exactly why the colonists declared war."

Yes, war and violence tends to erupt because of scarcity, that doesn't mean that the gold wasn't valuable.

"You don't understand where value comes from, you have a simplistic and erroneous notion of how inflation works,"

There is a high demand in industry for gold as the consumable commodity that it is, thus it's valuable.

"and you don't know jack shit about ubi."

When the UBI comes and invariably fails, I hope you enjoy the ensuing chaos. Thus far you haven't been able to point me to a working model on a similar scale as Yang is proposing. Your best attempt was Alaska, and they're able to pull it off because they have the value in the form of oil owned by the state; this allows them to distribute petrodollars to their people without having to tax them for it.

It only happens once a year, not once a month like Yang is proposing, and it’s about 1500 - 2000 bucks per person. Now if you compare that to our entire nation we don’t have the value to distribute, just paper notes of which there is no value attached outside of the power to tax, which is the power to destroy, and destroy it they will, all you have to do is give them the chance and that’s what you’re fighting for. I hope you like dog meat.

"You can postulate all day long that taxes are theft and that inflation is simply a matter of increasing the supply of money"

You come off like the people Nobel laureate Milton Friedman explained here. I think you want the inflation. Friedman clearly reveals that the only way to stop inflation is to have the government create less money and spend less money. However, that's not going to happen with a UBI; the problem will only get worse.

"shit you could have bothered to research but instead you are trying to argue that "inflation is a matter of printing more money".

Nobody that I know disputes this, not even famed economist Milton Friedman, are you more hip to the game than he was?

"saying nonsense like "if a nation does not have money" as nations are what create money, not the fed."

In America, the Fed does create the money, and this is based on its quasi-public/private partnership with the United States. When I said "if a nation doesn't have the money" what I meant is, if it doesn't have the resources to back up the money they print, then it's stupid to keep printing because all they end up doing is grossly devaluing their currency and that essentially (attacks) or is A TAX on everyone's savings account. If you can't see this I don't know how to help you.

"it's not worth debating shit with you."

Nobody's twisting your arm, you can git.

"10000 years of literary hundreds of failed gold standards and economies, mostly because of inflation but also because of scarcity of money. Two periods in that entire history are marked by prosperity like never before, when money was in the form of tally sticks, and when the colonists were issuing their fiat money."

Show me a fiat currency in the history of currencies that's never failed. Apparently you're unfamiliar with the idiom: "Not worth a continental."

"The intrinsic value of gold, what a bunch of idiotic nonsense that when scrutinized it becomes readily apparent what a myth it is without any basis in reason, logic or reality. The same with "if a nation does not have money". Gosh, those poor nations. "the siren song". Lol, the myth of "inflation is a matter of increased supply" as if money functions like a commodity like gold, or as if gold could Ever be, or has Ever been Sound Money or ANY economy has ever benefited from gold."

I don't know how to address this, now you're just raging against reality.

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Some variants of the quantity theory propose that inflation and deflation occur proportionately to increases or decreases in the supply of money. Empirical evidence has not demonstrated this, and most economists do not hold this view.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042015/how-does-money-supply-affect-inflation.asp

Colonial scrip didn't fail.

Colonial Scrip, not continental, which came after, and which had nothing to do with the former.

I'll have to look into that one. The "depreciation (of the Continental) was caused by the government printing large amounts of currency in order to meet the demands of war." When the currency is depreciated because of over printing the prices rise. That's inflation, first the money supply is inflated with printing too many notes, then the prices rise to compensate. If your money is collecting dust in a bank for too long, you're screwed.

Inflation is inherent because of market forces themselves. The more wealth is abundant the more people are willing to pay. You think it's a matter of more money but there are other important factors that come into play, which in the first article are referenced, and also in the white paper, and by the investopedia article, and like it says in that article, no emperical evidence. Inflation isn't that simple as "more money devalues money". You don't have any idea how much money it would cost to fund an ubi or how many times this has been tried in all kinds of shapes and sizes and the almost immediate positive effects on both the economy and society that had been discovered again and again. This is probably the sanest way to give capitalism a chance: let the poor man play the game. You think it's going to fail. Great, but you have about as much clue on either why it could fail or it's viability as you do on how inflation is caused or money creation works or intrinsic Vs historic.

When the currency is depreciated because of over printing the prices rise.

Over-printed, in relation to being printed just enough. You know what's funny, how you think it's so simple to repeat the ignorance of whoever wrote that nonsense. You don't have to explain to me how inflation works, and you can argue that inflation will be caused by more money forever, I'll just point out that fake money got nations out of inflation, remark about the outcome of numerous ubi programs, and point out the absurdity of valuating the world wealth in gold and how we will pay for cars in micrograms, and then point out that even if the fed wanted to pay themselves whatever comes after trillions, they couldn't spend it all, the fed is in the business of maintaining it's power and anything that erodes the people's trust in them cripples the value of dollars, gold on the other hand, you can fake about a dozen ways from Sunday and no one would feel safe carrying around the old bag of "here's literally everything I have, just spare me my life".

If "free money" is the magical solution to the world's problems lets test it out in Zimbabwe first, yes?

It doesn't matter where, this has been tested for decades numerous times. It's not magic to think that distributing wealth to the poor addressees numerous problems. This is what you seem completely oblivious to among other things, you literally knocked ubi down because of your notions of how it's funding would work, but you don't seem to understand neither how little it would cost to implement it or how effective it actually is, you literally used the exact same words to say that it wouldn't work that the ones you think of as thieves used to abruptly stop the experiment without releasing any relevant data or anything other than "it's not sustainable".

Perfect Zimbabwe it is, they have nothing to lose so if it doesn't work it's business as usual.