I believe I saw something very similar to this as a comment in Justin's latest post, but I'm sure you reposted for visibility.
Just like the exchanges, it is foolish for us not to be powering down. You should be using your influence to get other large stake holders to all start powering down at the same time. We can organize a sister fork and dump on Justin's chain; funneling that value into the sister fork. It will only take a dump of 2M-10M coins on Justin's chain for the value to tank under a penny per coin. There aren't going to be a lot of buyers on that front.
As you are already aware, these discussions with Justin are 90%+ likely to be completely pointless. We shouldn't even be talking to him anymore. CZ is the real target at this point, and it would be nice for him to know that if Sun botches this takeover more than he already has (very likely) Binance is going to be in a lot more trouble than they already are.
I support a sister fork where every account that voted for the puppet witnesses get frozen, and then we begin the long journey of figuring out which accounts to unfreeze and when. This includes the Steemit Inc. accounts, Binance, Huobi, Poloniex, a part of the Korean community, and a handful of low-stake holders who didn't know what they were doing.
Obviously first on the list to get unfrozen would be the Korean accounts and low-stake holders. The exchanges need to meet several demands before their accounts get unfrozen, and the ninjamine will probably be forked to null, as it's value is negative and 100% a liability.
Conclusion
We are not organized enough and need to start rallying support for a SINGLE fork now, rather than when Sun pushes a hardfork and we are on the backfoot. However, unless this stalemate lasts for months, we likely have to wait for Sun to FUBAR the chain before we have enough support to sister fork. I hope he bricks the chain. Still, we should have one ready to launch ASAP so we can deploy immediately. And we should be ready to dump on Sun and leave him with nothing. Also, we should be going over his head and talking to CZ directly about the severity of the situation. He doesn't seem to realize that we don't need a super majority to sister fork and do whatever we want.
If Sun Hardforks the Steem blockchain, that fork is no longer the Steem blockchain. CZ needs to be made to understand this, because Justin is not listening to us and talking in circles. JS has legendary tunnel vision right now, and doesn't realize his HF will immediately nullify all his assets, while if he stands down he can still get a return on the investment.
You act as if he has 0% support, but that is not what I have seen. There are a lot of people in Steem that were excited by the TRON/Steem combo news, and there are quite a few youtube videos from people like Hilarski and Freedompoint speaking out against the actions the witnesses did.
I believe the result of a sister fork will not go the way you want it to go. The most successful people on Steem are loyalists and will stick with Steem Classic, but a lot of the people here that are not very successful at getting on trending and such will go with Justin, even if it means becoming a token on TRON. If I am right, it means that the Steem community gets divided, when we all know how disappointingly small it already is.
What about SMTs or RC delegation? I'm not sure these cool features everyone has been waiting for will ever see the light of day if there is a contentious hard fork right now.
I think its better to go the peace pipe route for the time being.
okay i watched some Hilarski and Freedompoint videos.
im obviously a bit out of my element there
they have a lot of stake in the game.
however they seem to willfully ignore a lot of the facts that matter. both of them assume this all started with the witnesses freezing steemit stake. they both view the witnesses as greedy rich assholes that only care about self enrichment and dont represent the community. its all absurd.
this started when sun bought steemit then refused to talk to us and made constant contradictory claims about intent. freezing his accounts was not an attack or illegal. and we had no intention of leaving it frozen. they act like suns response was justified and proportional, using investor funds on exchanges to punk the chain with a devastating Sybil attack. i shouldnt have to explain why thats 1000 times worse.
they focus on the hatred spewed by our community, as if everyone should be a charismatic professional businessman. community will always have a full spectrum.
the witnesses make very little at these prices. devs hired by corporations easily make 10 times what they currently generate, and corporate devs dont have to deal with these politics.
they both want to "move forward" and think sun has value to offer. he doesnt
they blatantly ignore the extreme severity of this constant Sybil attack.
there are so many ways to pick apart their weak arguments, which has been done time and time again in the town hall meetings. the words fall of deaf ears.
thank you for pointing me in this direction, as this added perspective really makes a lot of the politics click into place for me. i guess perception really is reality sometimes.
written on an ipad
Do these people even have stake in the network? I'll probably watch these videos later but they seem like they don't have any skin in the game.
Let me be very clear: Justin Sun is not going to invest more money into this fucking fiasco. There is no chance that his chain gets more development than the real chain with the real witnesses. He is the most famous, prolific, and charismatic scammer in the space, and people keep falling for his bullshit hook line and sinker over and over again.
SMTs are basically done. Think about the differences between Justin's fork and the sister fork. There aren't any except a couple frozen accounts. If Justin's fork finishes SMT... the sister fork gets SMT for free, and vice versa. Well, probably not vice versa, because Justin has zero devs and he isn't going to hire more.
If Justin forks the main chain that chain will get dumped to zero and abandoned within a month. I guarantee it.
The absolute best case scenario is simply to buy Justin out of his position for whatever he paid Ned (I would lowball him for half as much) and send all those coins to @null and the SPS.
I would love to be proven wrong and will be the first to admit it. I'm wrong all the time. Personally, I think 10 years down the road Justin Sun will be the laughing stock of decentralization due to his actions and will have zero power and negative reputation across all networks.
Some people might indeed find it beneficial if a lot of "usual suspects" occupying trending went elsewhere, and left this chain. I expect something like this to be what people will try to weigh in when making a decision.
I can't imagine joining some kind of a platform full of people who only post about STEEM and fight all the time. Or... wait. I think I already did.
I'm left with an uneasy feeling about a split. The previous forks that took portions of this community away have always failed, and not just failed but failed miserably.
Think back to the Ethereum DAO hack. The main chain is the one with the most support. It is very obvious from witness voting that the new sister chain will actually be the main chain.
You'll notice I didn't say which chain would be dysfunctional, now that I brought that up.
It's more fun when you're in "absolutely batshit free association mode".
When this is all over let's drop acid.
I'm wayyy ahead of you...
"I support a sister fork where every account that voted for the puppet witnesses get frozen, and then we begin the long journey of figuring out which accounts to unfreeze and when."
Why would anyone buy Steem if it could be forked away? Buy Steem, but make sure to kiss a bunch of asses or it might get forked away. If someone owns steem they should be able to vote for whoever they want
That is so reductive I dont even know where to begin. A sister fork must freeze all the stake being used to attack the chain. The reason you buy Steem in this scenario is because Steem is a blockchain that defends itself from Sybil attack. To make the claim that "anyone could have their account frozen" because the attacking parties are being neutralized is absolutely absurd. Dont attack your own investments. Sorted.
Feel free to build your sister shitcoin with censorship over everybody.
Censorship over the accounts that attacked us and forced us to move to a new chain? Like, duh. That's the only difference that a sister fork needs to have to correct this situation.
Which accounts we unfreeze and when is certainly up for debate.
Are you simply pulling ideas out of your a....
Actually. Forget it. I wasn't here. Nobody saw me.
Out of my arsenal?
Freezing the accounts that attacked us isn't rocket science.
It's the obvious move.
You can see me?
I see three birds.
Is that you?
Speak to me, three-eyed raven.
press play
No woman no cry.
Where did he go?
If you guys do, could you make sure to post a list of witnesses you want us to not vote for so that we can make sure we don't accidentally vote for a Tron puppet just to find out that our accounts are now frozen. I voted for 30 witnesses and I believe I didn't vote for any Tron bots, but I just want to make sure.
I checked your wallet just to make sure, but pretty much anyone who has under 5000 SP (minnows and an plankton) would be forgiven pretty quickly (if not outright). This is especially true if the account in question was split voting and only voted for a few of the rogue sockpuppets. We don't really expect low stakes accounts to be fully invested in all this like the bigger ones.
That being said, all the witnesses running 0.22.5 are the "bad" ones. Currently, none of them have picture icons next to their names, and all the "good" witnesses do.
This is not an issue that small accounts likely have to worry about, as the main target is Steemit Inc. The exchanges are the secondary target, and the tertiary targets would be huge accounts engaging in split voting (which is mostly aimed at the sct community).
I'm really just talking out my ass here. I have absolutely no control over a potential sisterfork. It's honestly way above my pay-grade. I'm just voicing what I'd like to see happen.
Thank you. I understand.